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Kettlebell Dry Fighting Weight Results

Red_and_Black

Level 5 Valued Member
There is zero need to do that.

Why don't you just follow the program as outlined?

Yeah I mentioned somewhere on here that I did some stuff on the off-days when I first did this program a few months ago, and it was far too much and I think it contributed to me cranking my shoulder as well.

DFW 3 times a week is plenty imho, if you want to do more I'd do some brisk walks or yoga or something like that on off days.

Just did my first week of a second run through as mentioned above, went well, and feeling strong.
 

John K

Level 7 Valued Member
I read recently a modification of this, adding in 200 swings and 10 sets of pullups during 3 of the off days (6 total working days a week). Any thoughts or experience in adding onto this program a little with complementing movements? Am I asking for trouble?
It would make more sense to do Simple Strength using double kettlebell front squats, double clean and press, and pullups with the swings and getups on off days as Fabio outlines. This hits everything you sound like you want, but without the "asking for trouble" bit.
 

vpiguy88

Level 2 Valued Member
There is zero need to do that.

Why don't you just follow the program as outlined?
Appreciated Geoff. I'll give it a go. I'm assuming all the cleans do a significant amount of posterior chain and back work?

Desk jockey here, and I've found posterior work helps with various joint pains.
 

sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
There is zero need to do that.

Why don't you just follow the program as outlined?
Mr. Neupert, to quote from your email yesterday on fat loss:

Want to drop some body fat but you’re not in a hurry?
Use Simple “Means”, like “more Swings.”​
 

sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
I'm not sure what you mean.

Mind elaborating?
Certainly... DFW, a fat loss program, and people on reddit (r/kettleballs) have modified it by adding swings to it... While I agree that there is a tendency of people to create Frankenstein programs and overdo things. However, citing from your 1/11 email, you mentioned using "more swings" to drop body fat, so wouldn't that be in line with adding swings to DFW in the first place?
 

Bunn

Level 5 Valued Member
@vpiguy88 I have run DFW a few times, and currently working through The Giant series. I have found that both of these programs hit the posterior chain and back very well, the clean does a great job of this, combined with the press it is a great combo. For me, and my personal needs, running these programs as designed is all that I need to gain and maintain my progress. As an example, I do not train pull ups, ever, but I can still easily knock out a set of 10 or more strict pull ups whenever I want, multiple sets at lower rep ranges.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@sizzlefuzz, not every program lends itself to modification. Some are designed to used in conjunction with other training; others, not.

The article gives a three-days-a-week program, then says, near the bottom:

https://www.strongfirst.com/dry-fighting-weight/ said:
What should you do on your “off” days? Not much. Restoration work primarily. Easy stretching, mobility work, yoga, or my favorite, Original Strength. Just keep it light and easy. And certainly no MetCon.

Not being a reddit person, I can't speak to what others have done, but my advice would be to follow @Geoff's advice as given in the original program.

-S-
 

Geoff Neupert

Level 7 Valued Member
Beast Tamer
Certainly... DFW, a fat loss program, and people on reddit (r/kettleballs) have modified it by adding swings to it... While I agree that there is a tendency of people to create Frankenstein programs and overdo things. However, citing from your 1/11 email, you mentioned using "more swings" to drop body fat, so wouldn't that be in line with adding swings to DFW in the first place?
Ah... I see what you mean now.

That email is taken out of context of this thread.

DFW is a stand-alone program. No modifications needed.
 
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Geoff Neupert

Level 7 Valued Member
Beast Tamer
Not being a reddit person, I can't speak to what others have done, but my advice would be to follow @Geoff's advice as given in the original program.

-S-
Exactly.

Everyone wants to "modify" a program without testing it as it is written.

As I have said repeatedly over the last 20+ years: If you do anything other than "The Program" - any program - as written - it is no longer "The Program." And that disqualifies you from commenting on or evaluating it. Why?

Simple: Because you did not do "The Program." You did "your version" of "The Program."
 

sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
@Geoff Neupert @Steve Freides

I understand what both of you are saying, I was just trying to put myself in the mindset of a person who might ask the question about modifying DFW based on a reference to a recent email that referenced adding more swings, so someone might think that pushing "the gas" on a program, like DFW, might do.
 

John Grahill

Level 7 Valued Member
@vpiguy88 I have run DFW a few times, and currently working through The Giant series. I have found that both of these programs hit the posterior chain and back very well, the clean does a great job of this, combined with the press it is a great combo. For me, and my personal needs, running these programs as designed is all that I need to gain and maintain my progress. As an example, I do not train pull ups, ever, but I can still easily knock out a set of 10 or more strict pull ups whenever I want, multiple sets at lower rep ranges.
@Bunn I'm with you on this. When I ran Strong in 2015, I actually increased my pull ups......just follow the programs as written and you'll be fine.

The problem with the internet is that one can research any subject and see a multitude of training methods. With this comes a multitude of opinions. There's always going to be somebody who doesn't agree with the method you're using. Confusion is the result.
 

vpiguy88

Level 2 Valued Member
I just finished my first DFW session two days ago and holy cow are my hamstrings sore. Points taken on posterior work, geez.
A few quick questions:
1) Is it normal to be this sore, or possibly indicative of bad form? These are my first cleans, but the form "felt" good.
2) WHY does it make me so sore? I've never had this happen in 18 months of S&S, even with roughly the same or heavier weight.
3) Reading this is billed as a fat loss program, would it be less optimal for muscle gain during a bulk than something like Rite of Passage or Fabio's Simple Strength?
 

Red_and_Black

Level 5 Valued Member
I just finished my first DFW session two days ago and holy cow are my hamstrings sore. Points taken on posterior work, geez.
A few quick questions:
1) Is it normal to be this sore, or possibly indicative of bad form? These are my first cleans, but the form "felt" good.
2) WHY does it make me so sore? I've never had this happen in 18 months of S&S, even with roughly the same or heavier weight.
3) Reading this is billed as a fat loss program, would it be less optimal for muscle gain during a bulk than something like Rite of Passage or Fabio's Simple Strength?

I've not been sore with any of my sessions. Are you using the right KB as suggested? How many reps of each C&P and FSQ were done in your first few sessions?
 

Steve W.

Level 8 Valued Member
I just finished my first DFW session two days ago and holy cow are my hamstrings sore. Points taken on posterior work, geez.
A few quick questions:
1) Is it normal to be this sore, or possibly indicative of bad form? These are my first cleans, but the form "felt" good.
2) WHY does it make me so sore? I've never had this happen in 18 months of S&S, even with roughly the same or heavier weight.
3) Reading this is billed as a fat loss program, would it be less optimal for muscle gain during a bulk than something like Rite of Passage or Fabio's Simple Strength?
1) I wouldn't say it's normal or abnormal (see point 2 below). Hamstrings are one of the main loaded muscles groups for both the cleans and squats, so it's not necessarily an indicator of bad form.
2) Soreness can result from anything you're not acclimated to: load, volume, and/or the specific activity. "First cleans" means it's not a drill you're used to. The total load for double cleans is typically higher (often significantly higher) than for one-arm swings. So even though cleans and swing overlap a lot, the groove is not the same, and if the load is higher that makes two reasons S&S might not have acclimated you. Plus, on DFW you're also doing a lot of squats, so if you're not used to that, that's another factor that might lead to soreness.
3) I've never run DFW with the specific goal of fat loss. I just look at it as a C&P and FSQ program. Depending on how you eat, I think it could lend itself to different body composition goals. It's based on accumulating volume and increasing density with a relatively heavy weight (at least for the presses), and that can definitely be a recipe for hypertrophy.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@vpiguy88, I recall the first time I tried one-legged contralateral kettlebell deadlifts. I'd already been doing quite a variety of lifts and for a long time, but after those 1-leg DL's, I was so sore I had trouble coming down a flight of steps and the soreness took most of a week to go away.

I look at such times in my training as gifts - I've been given a movement that, with practice, will make me stronger in a way I didn't even know of before.

-S-
 

vpiguy88

Level 2 Valued Member
1) I wouldn't say it's normal or abnormal (see point 2 below). Hamstrings are one of the main loaded muscles groups for both the cleans and squats, so it's not necessarily an indicator of bad form.
2) Soreness can result from anything you're not acclimated to: load, volume, and/or the specific activity. "First cleans" means it's not a drill you're used to. The total load for double cleans is typically higher (often significantly higher) than for one-arm swings. So even though cleans and swing overlap a lot, the groove is not the same, and if the load is higher that makes two reasons S&S might not have acclimated you. Plus, on DFW you're also doing a lot of squats, so if you're not used to that, that's another factor that might lead to soreness.
3) I've never run DFW with the specific goal of fat loss. I just look at it as a C&P and FSQ program. Depending on how you eat, I think it could lend itself to different body composition goals. It's based on accumulating volume and increasing density with a relatively heavy weight (at least for the presses), and that can definitely be a recipe for hypertrophy.
Thanks! Much appreciate the thorough response. Have you run ROP before? I'm essentially trying to decide between the two as my first C&P program. I have heavier single & lighter double bells available.
@vpiguy88, I recall the first time I tried one-legged contralateral kettlebell deadlifts. I'd already been doing quite a variety of lifts and for a long time, but after those 1-leg DL's, I was so sore I had trouble coming down a flight of steps and the soreness took most of a week to go away.

I look at such times in my training as gifts - I've been given a movement that, with practice, will make me stronger in a way I didn't even know of before.

-S-

I remember the same my first time doing single leg deadlifts, fair comparison. It is definitely a good feeling doing something completely new.
 
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