Dynamic vs Static

Neuro-Bob

More than 2500 posts
What would be the difference in strength adaptation when training with a dynamic movement vs a static hold?

For example: training via one arm pushups for (quality) reps, as opposed to static holding the bottom position of a one arm push-up and simply increasing the TOT?

I believe a static hold at the bottom is mentioned somewhere in NW, as I’ve used that technique in the past.

But either way, which kind of goal would be better suited to which method of training? When would it be wise to choose one over the other?
 

Anna C

More than 5000 posts
Elite Certified Instructor
If you search for "slow fibers" on the articles page you'll find the blog articles about using the static (or near static) exercises. The static hold limits the blood flow in the muscles during the work and encourages the hypertrophy of the slow fibers. For most people and applications, it's not the best way to go, and dynamic exercises are better. But they can be useful, especially for sports or applications where you static muscular endurance at a high percentage of 1RM such as wrestling.

That's my brief understanding of it, anyway... hope that helps.
 

North Coast Miller

More than 2500 posts
What would be the difference in strength adaptation when training with a dynamic movement vs a static hold?

For example: training via one arm pushups for (quality) reps, as opposed to static holding the bottom position of a one arm push-up and simply increasing the TOT?

I believe a static hold at the bottom is mentioned somewhere in NW, as I’ve used that technique in the past.

But either way, which kind of goal would be better suited to which method of training? When would it be wise to choose one over the other?

Yeah, if you have any application where static control is a strong component it really pays to include a bit of that in your training, or if the movement allows, abbreviated ROM in the desired range. I've been experimenting with this and getting some very good if limited results. I have also gotten good results doing iso and yielding iso to increase striking speed both hand and leg.

For general fitness a full ROM is better, but some research shows a mix of full and isometric can improve size or power output depending on the lift/muscles involved.

Bodyweight Isometrics for Improved Strength | T Nation
 

offwidth

More than 5000 posts
I agree that in some case (goal dependent) one needs to train both. In rock climbing for example there is a term known as 'lock-off' strength. This is the ability to hold oneself in a static position. Imagine doing a pull-up and then holding the top position, whilst you reposition your body, or fiddle with gear, or reach for another hold. Very important in climbing.
 

Anna C

More than 5000 posts
Elite Certified Instructor
Yes, rock climbing is another excellent example. For this, Pavel recommended the hack squat hold. 30-60 seconds, moving very slowly back and forth through the hardest part of the hack squat movement. Brutal.
 

Neuro-Bob

More than 2500 posts
@Anna C thanks for the reference. The “how to build your slow twitch fibers” series was very interesting, and came with some plans for practical application. It seems similar to what you said, though it did include that some people may simply prefer the “burn” from slow twitch training as opposed to heavy weight/low reps. I’m not sure where I fall on that scale.....

@North Coast Miller i liked that article, thanks for sharing it. Reminds me of a former roommate that was a collegiate gymnast...,even after an injury that put him out for a few months, his withered arm was bigger than mine!

@offwidth excellent use of the word “whilst.” Very Dickensian. More seriously, that makes sense as a practical application. I love watching things like ninja warrior, and you can always tell who is a climber and who isn’t.....
 

Karen Smith

More than 300 posts
Master Certified Instructor
Iron Maiden
They both have there place. At the SFB I teach people to use the Static holds near their sticking points. For example if working the OA/OAOL pushup and as you near the bottom you lose tension and cannot perform the full range of motion, then I would stop just short of that tension loss and hold that position for time. We also teach to start from the bottom up and do the same thing. Beginning relaxed and "zipping up" tension to a spot just before the sticking point. Think of building the movement from top down and from bottoms up until you meet in the middles with one very strong solid movement.
 

Neuro-Bob

More than 2500 posts
They both have there place. At the SFB I teach people to use the Static holds near their sticking points. For example if working the OA/OAOL pushup and as you near the bottom you lose tension and cannot perform the full range of motion, then I would stop just short of that tension loss and hold that position for time. We also teach to start from the bottom up and do the same thing. Beginning relaxed and "zipping up" tension to a spot just before the sticking point. Think of building the movement from top down and from bottoms up until you meet in the middles with one very strong solid movement.
This makes perfect sense, thanks!
 

Jak Nieuwenhuis

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
choose both. static and dynamic.

nothing will educate you more about the OAPU and pistol than holding the bottom position.

when I run NW, I choose 1 or 2 days per week to work ONLY on the top and bottom positions for time..

doing statics and dynamics in the same day is not preferred.. for me anyway
 

dododo

Second Post
train holds to be good at holds...
train dynamic to be good at moving under tension...
train a given thing to be good at that given thing. there is some carry over but don't depend on it
 

Sergej

Triple-Digit Post Count
Google johnny grube or wildmantraining.com

He is a very big proponent of isometrics.and has some very simple,but hard and effective workouts containing them.
 

Sergej

Triple-Digit Post Count
Yes, rock climbing is another excellent example. For this, Pavel recommended the hack squat hold. 30-60 seconds, moving very slowly back and forth through the hardest part of the hack squat movement. Brutal.
How exactly can the hack squat help with climbing?
As far as i know,climbers recommend pistol squats because you need one leg strength.
 

Anna C

More than 5000 posts
Elite Certified Instructor
How exactly can the hack squat help with climbing?
As far as i know,climbers recommend pistol squats because you need one leg strength.
Pavel made the recommendation during the Strong Endurance seminar in May, and if I remember correctly, it was about two things: 1) isometric contraction, as you have to hold yourself on the wall (thus the 30-60 sec hold), and 2) using the leg strength specifically in that range of motion where the hip joint is externally rotated AND maximally flexed. I actually remember this from my little bit of climbing last year with my son in Yosemite National Park -- although my legs were relatively strong, I had a hard time reaching my foot WAY up on the wall for a new foothold and then pulling myself up onto it. I think the hack squat hold would have helped address that.
 

pet'

More than 5000 posts
Hello,

@North Coast Miller
Maybe I'll ask something stupid, but is it possible to train isometrics as a circuit ? For instance, 8s of deadlift, then 8s of press, with very few rest between ?
In my mind force exerted is maximal, this is why I mention a fairly short amount of time under tension.

Thanks !

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

North Coast Miller

More than 2500 posts
Hello,

@North Coast Miller
Maybe I'll ask something stupid, but is it possible to train isometrics as a circuit ? For instance, 8s of deadlift, then 8s of press, with very few rest between ?
In my mind force exerted is maximal, this is why I mention a fairly short amount of time under tension.

Thanks !

Kind regards,

Pet'

You certainly can, I believe you could structure them any way you wish. But some things to keep in mind.

I still don't have the practical experience to say for myself for sure, but from what I've read, Isometric contractions produce very specific results based on angle and duration. In this respect they're like a snapshot case study in resistance training specificity.

Short efforts yield improvement to short pulses of strength at the specific angles used. I used to do iso at the starting posture of all my punches and kicks and do believe it got me off the block faster.

The longer the contraction is held, the greater the effective strength gain will be across a larger angle range. Steve Maxwell once stated in an interview that iso held for 30 seconds or more at the midpoint generated strength increases across the entire ROM.

I haven't found a source for that, but have found plenty that demonstrate the opposite (increasing specificity with decreasing hold time) so it is very likely an accurate statement. In any event I use two positions per and have found I cannot maintain intensity longer than 25 seconds.

I use mine in an upper/lower PHA split just like my resistance training (not quite a circuit), as this seems to keep my head clear and effort high. Not very many metabolites that need clearing when doing iso, but is difficult to keep putting forth MVC without spreading the pain around. I limit these to once/week as I don't believe I could put forth a solid effort more often than that.
 

pet'

More than 5000 posts
Hello,

@North Coast Miller
Thank you for your answer !

From what I remember, Bob Hoffman in "Functionnal Isometric Contraction", talks about 8 moves(among them, back squat, deadlift, press, shrug), successively done, with very few rest between (basically, time to get back to normal breath). Each position is held during 9-12s. The effort is maximal. Eventually, the whole training is supposed to last a bit more than 1 minute.

This max effort tends to confirm what you say because in the book, I remember that all the folk who tried this method then got a better performance.

Do you know this ? What do you think about this author ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

North Coast Miller

More than 2500 posts
@pet'
I don't know much about Bob Hoffman other than I should know more than I do.

Many of the Iso tutorials recommend shorter contractions, but personally I believe this is because that's about the longest you can hold a contraction for a single exhale. Anything longer and you are definitely breathing behind the shield, which makes maintaining MVC all the more difficult. I attempt MVC the entire time but redouble my effort with every exhale - that's just the way we're built.

With one minute cycles at 25 seconds effort, I need all of the remaining 35 seconds to rest and get into position for the next movement. A big part of that is maybe the longer effort, but honestly the most taxing effect is on the breath and circulatory having to keep breathing through a max effort for 4-6 breaths or so.

Initially I attempted to do squats and DL using a post and some straps to a board under my feet, but it really seemed like I'd need a squat cage to do any of it right. Since this is supplemental and not my primary resistance training, I switched to some other movements for leg and core.
 

pet'

More than 5000 posts
Hello,

@North Coast Miller
I use two straps, one for each side. I do a loop at the end of each strap. Then I put a foot in each loop. Then, I do another loop on the other side of each straps and get a stick through each. That way, when I move "up", my feet are not getting closer.

I do not try to go any longer than 6-7s because it forces me to breathe, so I reduce the tension.

I use this method this morning and it worked quite well.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
The static hold limits the blood flow in the muscles during the work and encourages the hypertrophy of the slow fibers.
Blood Flow "Occlusion"

Blood Flow Occlusion/Kaatsu Training amount to wrapping your leg or arm with a tourniquet. On a scale of 1 - 10, you want to be around a 6 - 7.

This allows arterial blood flow from the heart to the working muscle and minimize ventricle blood back to the heart; ballooning the muscle up. This produces a anabolic effect for muscle growth.

Muscle Contractions

Muscle contractions with moderate to high repetition exercises, Isometric Actions and Stretching also occlude blood flow. However, pumping blood to the muscles with moderate to high repetition is the most effect method.

"The Size Principle"

There is a "Pecking Order" during exercise when it comes to Muscle Fiber.

Slow Twitch/Type I fire first, followed by Fast/Type IIa and finally "Super" Fast/Type IIb.

When blood flow is restricted to the muscle, it innervates the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber. "The Size Principle" in the Muscle Firing Sequence still follows the Slow > Fast > "Super" Fast sequence. However, blood flow restriction bring the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber into play much faster and working and exhaust them quickly.

Engaging the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber, working them and exhausting them is one of the primary reason for blood flow restriction training methods; Fast Twitch Muscle Hypertrophy Training.

Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber

Once the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber are exhausted in a movement, the Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber take over.

Static Hold and Blood Flow Occlusion

Static Hold minimally occlude blood flow to the muscles. It doesn't really produce much of "The Pump/Metabolic Stress" necessary for Hypertrophy.

Static Hold for Extending "Metabolic Stress/The Pump"

Of the three components for Muscle Hypertrophy (Mechanical Tension, Metabolic Stress, Muscle Damage), "Metabolic Stress/The Pump" is the dominate factor. It involves flooding blood into the the working muscle via moderate to high repetition.

Once the moderate to high repetition set is completed, performing an Isometric/Static Hold provides a "Tourniquet Like Effect"; maintaining "The Pump" in the muscle, restricting ventricle blood back the heart.

With the said, Static Hold alone provide a minimal amount of Hypertrophy Training. However, performing them after a moderate to high repetition exercise set enables you to maintain "The Pump/Metabolic Stress on the muscle, magnifying the anabolic effect.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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