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Barbell Easy strength and S&S?

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EasyPeezy

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Hello, names Al
not new to barbells but haven't lifted in 15 years(49yo).
But have used kbs off and on in past ten years.
last year did S&S almost to simple standard, but hurt my back and never got back into it regularly after I healed up. just some occasional S&S training.

Last summer I felt fantastic before I stopped training. This year I have really felt weak and unconditioned, so I decided to change that.
Besides my kettlebells, I equipped myself with a barbell, bench and stands.
Tried starting strength for four weeks with some S&S 1 or 2 times a week. Found that the back squat once it started getting heavy started to give me some warning pains, so I stopped.
recouped a couple weeks and have tried Zercher squats and I really like them better.
I reread easy strength a couple times and felt with my age, that that is probably the route I should take to getting stronger.

So I would love some feed back on my new plans. The thing I really learned in S&S was stick to the plan long term, no changing the plan every other week. Well her it is:
Easy Strength Zercher squats and bench press 10 reps per session ie.5x2,2x5,3x3,6x1,532.
twice a week.
S&S twice a week.

Thank you for any input.
Al
 
At 51 I started lifting "more seriously/regularly" I was happy with my newbie strength gains. I may have went a little to fast and tweaked my knee. I have always been very careful with form, and frankly I am not sure how I tweaked knee, may not have even been squatting... Thus I backed off my "heavy squats" and I am currently trap bar deadlifting about 50% max and I have incorporated BW squats (100 a day) with the idea of continuing to perfect my form and frankly getting the ole legs a little more use to the ROM and work they had not been use to. Knee pain is all but gone, but the plan is to continue just with BW squats till the first of the year. Another thing I have found for me, is it seems a little more critical to warm up. Not sure if this is normal, but even after a decent warm up, I don't seem to be my strongest until my 3rd heavy set, i.e. if I am OHP 180, i.e. 5X2, the first 2 sets are allot weaker then the last 3.
 
Hello Al, welcome to the StrongFirst Forum.
EasyPeezy said:
So I would love some feed back on my new plans. The thing I really learned in S&S was stick to the plan long term, no changing the plan every other week. Well her it is:
Easy Strength Zercher squats and bench press 10 reps per session ie.5x2,2x5,3x3,6x1,532.
twice a week.
S&S twice a week.
Click to expand...
This is in my opinion a reasonable plan, as Pavel recommends doing S&S two times a week with additional strength training. Easy strength is a brilliant template as you can focus on a few lifts, and the volume of around 10 reps encourages high quality reps, and one can wave intensity up and down (I am currently doing ES for six weeks now and enjoy it big time.). S&S is a brilliant template too (I know from positive experience), and the StrongFirst Blog and Forum is an abundant resource in this regard.
The thing that is a bit bothering, is your back. Was it hurt due to training, or because of another incident? Did you ever had a trainer? Are you sure to execute the mentioned lifts properly? Here on the Forum there is always the opportunity, to upload videos, and they will be discussed accordingly by experienced eyes.
 
My suggestions:

- dial in your technique.
- get the "Simple" standards back, and own them. They have to feel easy to you - and it does not matter if it takes weeks or months.
- then switch to S&S twice a week, and barbell twice a week. I would consider deadlift and benchpress (PTTP!). MON, TUE, THU, FRI.
- Super-Joints, Relax into Stretch, Original Strength - take your pick, but work on your mobility and flexibility, move.
- patience. Avoid the common mistake of too much, too soon.
 
Thanks for the replies.
My lower back is great, never had a problem. It's my upper middle back that caused the most problems.
then a pinched nerve in the neck, went to chiropractor and fixed it up. It's from poor posture at work, hunched over while standing at a table. I love the goblet squats, and have no problem getting right down deep. But during the barbell back squat I started getting pain just below the right hip.

I knew I would be told to go back and reach the Simple standards first. I'm just enjoying my upper body pushing strength coming back after so many years. Yes patience!
Ya I need to work on my hamstrings and hip flexors. I have super-joints, & relax into stretch.
I feel my biggest obstacle is holding myself back from the barbell lifting. I know I'll end up hurt if I don't go slow and train smart.

Thanks for listening
Al
 
Pavel. Might be a silly question, but does it matter whether you do your S&S day before the barbell day? Ie mon s&s tue barbell thur s&s fri barbell.
 
I went from S&S Simple to Easy Strength and barbell work. Doing it in this order allowed me to give each the focus on technique development that they deserved. I also found that my pressing strength was fine after S&S; I was not far off from a bodyweight press. Just my 2c.
 
HUNTER1313 said:
Pavel. Might be a silly question, but does it matter whether you do your S&S day before the barbell day? Ie mon s&s tue barbell thur s&s fri barbell.
Click to expand...

I would personally do:

mon A
tue B
wed rest
thu A
fri B
 
Harald Motz said:
Hello Al, welcome to the StrongFirst Forum.

Pavel recommends doing S&S two times a week with additional strength training. Easy strength is a brilliant template as you can focus on a few lifts, and the volume of around 10 reps encourages high quality reps, and one can wave intensity up and down
Click to expand...


Next week I am going to start Easy Strength program for 40days. This is my first time doing Easy Strength. How should SS be mixed in with Easy Strength? Light days, off days, ect? I do not want to lose my swing power, TGU technique and conditioning going on Easy Strength. What are other good ways to keep conditioning on Easy Strength?
 
@mkipper : don't worry much about. Do Your ES 3-5 times, your S&S 1-2 times and you will be fine. Really focus on high quality without gritting teeth to much. It is a very reasonable and good combination. With ES you only have a few guidelines and you can fill them with many many possibilities regarding trainingtools, sets and reps. Enjoy.
 
Harald Motz said:
@mkipper : With ES you only have a few guidelines and you can fill them with many many possibilities regarding trainingtools, sets and reps. Enjoy.
Click to expand...

Any certain lifts you recommend for ES? Goals are to achieve Simple, pass 5min Snatch Test, start working towards pressing half bw.

Here is what I thinking for ES:
Deadlift
Front or Back Squat
Pullups
Bench Press or OH Barbell Press
Abb Wheel or KB Carries
 
@mkipper : your considerations on your lifts are fine. You could (you must not) practice instead of the deadlifts snatches (maybe at the end as "finishers"), sometimes maybe a bit heavier (28k, 32k,...) with lower reps, sometimes the 24k with moderate reps/volume, or even lighter (20k, 16k). You could stay while the 40 days with heavier weight all the time, or... its all up to you anyway, and that is the beauty of ES: there are a few guidelines and in these there are plenty of options which, in my opinion all will work, when you operate in the guidelines (around 10 total reps for the lifts, maybe take or give a few, for ballistics 20-50, never to failure, waving intensity and volume up and down, according on how you feel). An option regarding half bw press would be to incorporate bottom up (cleans) presses, starting really light, as you will naturally learn a thing or two about tension generation, which makes strong(er).
Do your ES with some S&S sprinkled in and you are on a good way.
 
Since the thread I started is still going, I might as well up date where I'm at.
What ever injury I did to my right hip was? It has taken several months to finally clear up.
No I did not see a dr. and if it comes back, I'll consider it.

So here's the plan!!!
Five days a week S&S
Two of those Five days, I will substitute Bench and one arm rows for Getups.

note: have had way to many injuries to elbows doing pull ups :(
Also I had no problem reaching the simple standard on getups, it was the swings that I was lacking in.
Once I reach Simple standards, I would like to switch to a S&S and PTTP program.
Since I'm starting back with the 24kg, I'll give myself six months, as my conditioning has really taken a dive,
and I've packed on too many pounds!

Goal: look and feel great when I turn fifty this summer ;)

Al
 
Thanks for the advice Harold. As far as Deadlifts and Barbell Front Squats do the same breathing techniques apply as to the kettlebell?

Lastly, On the Easy Strength program is it ok to space out your exercises throughout the day? I am fortunate enough to work in a gym.
 
@mkipper: deadlifts: when you really wedged yourself between the bar and the ground each and every muscle tight take a good breath into your belly, start the lift and breath out partially ("tsss") maybe on the very last completion of the lift, or when completed. Stay tight in every muscle, breath into your belly again and hinge the glutes back, to lower the bar.
frontsquats: when the bar is unracked, everything is tensed, breathe air into your belly, descent under complete control with your air until your depth, explode up and exhale like in the deadlift.
So the breathing mechanics are definitely different from KB-ballistics, where you breathe in on the negative. When moving heavy load, you need air in a tensed abdomen for strength and safety reasons.
As ES is a strength protocol in my opinion there would be no problem, to spread your exercises throughout the day. I imagine, that this could be more beneficial than a "not so good" alternative. Yes, you are fortunate.
 
Just reporting my progress, since the beginning of the year, when I started Easy strength.
Every morning before work, six days a week, I do S&S goblet squats and swings. three days a week I was doing press 2x5reps and bench 2x5reps, plus one arm rows 2x8reps. Now that the weights are much higher, my shoulders have told me to pick one or the other presses.
So I've switched to just bench press three times a week and will start incorporating getups a couple times a week.

I have to say I love easy strength! I've been making steady gains and I'm never sore. Back in the old days when I used to workout in a gym, 1990's, I was always sore!
Now that I'm near the end of the beginner phase, I'll be switching up the sets and reps and waving the loads.
Back two years ago, when I was just doing S&S, I was never as consistent as I am now, now that I do my swings in the morning.
I'm really looking forward to how strong I'll be and how good I'll look when I turn fifty this summer.

Al
 
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