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Kettlebell EDT training with KBs (and dumbbells)? - advice welcome

Tirofijo

Level 6 Valued Member
Anyone with EDT experience here?

I've been playing around with some simple EDT workouts (dumbbell bench + dumbbell rows) as I thought I was going to be living out of a hotel for a month and would only have access to typical hotel gym dumbbells .

I might after all be staying at home and would have access to KBs, but I'd like to give the EDT a shot, maybe for 6 weeks before going back to a more Strongfirst approach.

I see a youtube video with Charles Staley himself overseeing a workout combining KB clean and thrusters with pull ups. That's about perfect as I don't want to lose progress on my C&P. Staley mentions bench press + front squats, which could easily be double kb clean and front squat.

Any other good antagonistic exercises incorporating KBs that come to mind?

Also, I was kinda toying with combining just one PR zone per workout (instead of 2 or 3) and daily dose deadlifts, and maybe 3x5 of something else. I'm probably not going to go down the road of curls/tricep extensions, so maybe I don't need so many PR zones. Any thoughts there?

For those that don't know, EDT is Escalating Density Training: Revisited | T Nation

Here's what Pavel said a long time ago about EDT. “Charles Staley’s EDT is the most foolproof method of building muscle I have ever come across. And it is not the fake muscles of a pump artist; EDT muscles are as strong as they look!”
 

Ryan Toshner

SFG TL, SFB, SFL, FMS
Senior Certified Instructor
If you're comfortable with doing KB jerks, I'd suggest cleans and jerks... either double bells or clean x5 + jerk x5 on one side followed by the other. You have your hinge and pull (clean) and squat and push (jerk) covered. Plus rotation/anti-rotation as well if you use 1 bell.

You could also do cleans and long push presses (thrusters, or whatever else you may call them... basically using the momentum on the concentric phase of a full squat to lead into the push press).

Or long push presses and swings (double bells).

If you're going heavy enough, adding the daily dose DLs is probably too much/unnecessary.
 

BrianCF

Level 6 Valued Member
Do a 25 minute PR Zone, Military Presses and Double Rows
Another good one is Double Front Squat and Double Swings or Double Snatch. Or lunges and swings.

Do sets of 3-5. I've used it many times. The volume does start to catch up in week 4...
 

taikei

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
My first preparation for kettlebell snatch test long time ago, I used EDT.
Snatch Left/Right combination. End result was something of total 112 each in 15 minutes.
Typical antagonists are double military press /renegade row.
Right/Left combination with single kettlebell usually works. I don't recomend it but have done getups for 15 minutes in past.
 

Jeff Roark

Level 6 Valued Member
I have not used this for Kettlebells yet, but the old Bryce Lane 50/20 or also called "Have it All" program worked wonders for me. I like it because its not so much set in stone, use whatever reps you want, your goal is simply 50 reps or more in 20 minutes. Now with something like KBs that move a bit quicker the rep goal could probably be set a bit higher. I've got some ideas on how I may implement this myself once I get a few injuries completely healed up.
 

Tirofijo

Level 6 Valued Member
Dry fighting weight is technically a 30 minute PR zone.. something to think about

Thanks. You probably saw I just finished up DFW, and it kicked my butt (in the sense that it was very taxing.) But doing a single 15 minute PR with two antagonist exercises, so far, has been much, much less taxing. (Compared to a just one exercise for 30 minutes with DFW.)

After testing the waters for a few workouts, I do think I can manage one PR zone and Daily Dose Deadlifts. But I also think it leaves some holes in my training, since I would be doing just bench press, pull ups and deadlifts for a while. (I usually do some Maffetone-style runs when I get the chance.) I need to get back to doing TGUs, and there might be energy available for them.

I wouldn't mind a little more mass, so this seems to be a non-bodybuilder way to do it. Again, I'm only dabbling with this because if I do end up living out of a hotel for month or so and have to rely on dumbbells, I can drop deadlifts and add lower body stuff with split squats or something.
 

BrianCF

Level 6 Valued Member
PR Zone stands for Personal Record. So if you do say 30 presses and rows in 15 minutes, the next time you do the workout, you need to do at least 31 reps for each.

I'm a fan of this protocol

20 minutes PR Zone 1
Press alternated with Row / Pullups
Rest 5 minutes after it's over

15 minutes PR Zone 2
Front squat alternated with double swings or snatches

You run the program for 4 weeks, at the end of 4 weeks, you'll have to do at least 8 (if you're running it 2 x a week) more reps then when you first start.

It's great for conditioning as well
 

Kettlebelephant

Level 6 Valued Member
Just FYI many of Geoff Neuperts routines are basically EDT with one or two 15min PR zones. So if you have them, you might aswell just choose one of his programs.
 

BrianCF

Level 6 Valued Member
Great point, and I've done a lot of Geoff's programs. I've done every MKM program, his 100 kettlebell workouts, as well as Burn Extreme.

EDT is usually my go to double kettlebell program when I want to crank up the volume.

You will get the best results from your press if you do the squat in another PR session. Front Squats in the rack have a way of fatiguing the rear deltoids and it gets harder to do more reps, especially if you don't put the bells down and squat immediately after the press.

I'd rather be fresher doing my presses and getting more reps. And when doing a leg PR, use heavier bells vs. limiting it to the weight you can press.
 

Cearball

Level 6 Valued Member
Google

50/20 programme by Bryce Lane.

Some good ideas there to.

Notably the back off week every 3 weeks.
 

KIWI5

Level 4 Valued Member
I had never heard of 'EDT'- but I love the concept and will have to schedule a cycle of this style of programming in. I have done 'Dry Fighting Weight'- but viewed it as a 'heavy-light-medium' type programme. I had some linear progression throughout, but my focus was improving my double press after completion (goal achieved).
 

Zack Kaufman

Level 1 Valued Member
Great point, and I've done a lot of Geoff's programs. I've done every MKM program, his 100 kettlebell workouts, as well as Burn Extreme.

EDT is usually my go to double kettlebell program when I want to crank up the volume.

You will get the best results from your press if you do the squat in another PR session. Front Squats in the rack have a way of fatiguing the rear deltoids and it gets harder to do more reps, especially if you don't put the bells down and squat immediately after the press.

I'd rather be fresher doing my presses and getting more reps. And when doing a leg PR, use heavier bells vs. limiting it to the weight you can press.

What Excercises did you use then?
 

BrianCF

Level 6 Valued Member
Monday
20 minutes
Military Press alternated with Row
Rest 5 minutes
15 minutes
Double Front Squat alternated with Double Swings

Wednesday
20 minutes
Double Floor Press / Bench Press alternated with Pullups
15 minutes
Reverse Lunge alternated with single or double snatch
 

BrianCF

Level 6 Valued Member
Yes, Monday Wednesday Friday. Rest the other days ,you'll need it in the 3rd and 4th weeks.
 

John Grahill

Level 7 Valued Member
I see Bryce Lane's workout mentioned, the 50/20. It's extremely effective with kettlebells. I sampled it with 2 kb clean and presses as workout A and trapbar deadlifts as workout B last year.

My only gripe with EDT type training (which is quite good) is that sometimes I have lost good form while pursuing the PR. I suspect I'm not alone.

I have learned to ease into that type of training.
 
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