Other/Mixed Elite Power & Oly Lifters using StrongFirst methods

[Ryan Humphries]

Greetings!

Long time listener, first time caller here. I've been introducing the StrongFirst methodology to many of my athletes and coaches. I got a great question from a great coach who I'll call a "skeptic". His question was, do you know of any elite Powerlifters, Oly lifters, or CrossFitters currently using a PlanStrong method or being trained under a StrongFirst coach?

My response to his question was, I'm sure there are, and although I don't know names off the top of my head (as I don't follow Oly or Powerlifting too closely) that I know both the SFL and the PlanStrong courses are based off of data from the last 40 or 50 years of some of the best lifters around the world.

Would anyone be able to give me a name of an elite athlete known for following a StrongFirst template?

Thanks!

 

[Steve Freides]

@Ryan Humphries,

Off the top of my head, you'll find testimonials in several of Pavel's books from elite athletes. Maybe someone can cite a few here.

The cover of Pavel's most recent book, The Quick and the Dead, features Ilaria Scopece, who is cited as "the number-one ranked professional light flyweight boxer in Europe."

S&C Training for MMA With Simple & Sinister | StrongFirst talks about preparing a professional MMA fighter using StrongFirst's method, article authored by the fighter's coach, StrongFirst Master Instructor @Pavel Macek.

Plenty of us are Elite or record-holding powerlifters, or both.

-S-

 

[Harald Motz]

'underground secrets to faster running'
by Barry Ross

'easy strength' by Pavel & Dan John

Barry Ross brought Allyson Felix to the top. She gathered the most medals throughout her career, and she is still sprinting at 36 y.

 

[Alan Mackey]

I‘ve seen how professional athletes train (notice I didn’t even mention elite ones, just regular pros) and I would never try to emulate them.

While the training principles might be more or less universal (submaximal training, pretty high “easy” volume sessions, etc…), trying to replicate their workouts, even titrating WAY down the workouts, I would crash and burn badly within a couple of weeks at most.

A 300lbs. elite powerlifter doing a 900lbs. pull is very, very, very, very different than a regular amateur 180lbs. lifter trying to attain a triple bodyweight deadlift.

The true appeal of the SF approach is that is aimed for us, the recreational lifters, runners, martial artists, climbers and athletes, looking for getting stronger while having a regular job, a family and even a bunch of other time and energy consuming hobbies.. I would have ZERO interest in following a program intended for professional athletes.

 

[Antti]

A good and interesting question.

First, I would like that we define "elite". To me, it is a very high standard, though I'm not sure what exactly. Top 2% of IPF worldwide open yearly rankings?

 

[Antti]

I‘ve seen how professional athletes train (notice I didn’t even mention elite ones, just regular pros) and I would never try to emulate them.

While the training principles might be more or less universal (submaximal training, pretty high “easy” volume sessions, etc…), trying to replicate their workouts, even titrating WAY down the workouts, I would crash and burn badly within a couple of weeks at most.

A 300lbs. elite powerlifter doing a 900lbs. pull is very, very, very, very different than a regular amateur 180lbs. lifter trying to attain a triple bodyweight deadlift.

The true appeal of the SF approach is that is aimed for us, the recreational lifters, runners, martial artists, climbers and athletes, looking for getting stronger while having a regular job, a family and even a bunch of other time and energy consuming hobbies.. I would have ZERO interest in following a program intended for professional athletes.

But StrongFirst does cater for athletes as well. Just use different programming, right? On the start page of the main site one is asked if one is a beginner, an athlete or a hard living type, whatever that is.

As the first thing on the athlete page is a praising quote from Louie Simmons. Does it get more powerlifting than that?

Plan Strong specifically promises extraordinary results in the powerlifts.

I do get that it's great that the recreational strength trainee gets his part, but where'd you get the idea that it's all there is or that it's opposed to serving the other crowd?

 

[Alan Mackey]

But StrongFirst does cater for athletes as well. Just use different programming, right? On the start page of the main site one is asked if one is a beginner, an athlete or a hard living type, whatever that is.

As the first thing on the athlete page is a praising quote from Louie Simmons. Does it get more powerlifting than that?

Plan Strong specifically promises extraordinary results in the powerlifts.

I do get that it's great that the recreational strength trainee gets his part, but where'd you get the idea that it's all there is or that it's opposed to serving the other crowd?

I can’t talk about Plan Strong because I have no access to it.

What I do know is that, whatever you need to do to be able to pull 900lbs. from the floor, is very, very, very different from what any novice and intermediate lifter need to do to keep progressing.

Unless Plan Strong is a concept rather than a specific program, I pretty much doubt it can serve recreational and elite lifters alike. Their respective needs are WAY too far apart and different.

I’m not trying to diminish SF’s programs in any conceivable way. There’s no need to get all defensive about it.

 

[Antti]

I can’t talk about Plan Strong because I have no access to it.

What I do know is that, whatever you need to do to be able to pull 900lbs. from the floor, is very, very, very different from what any novice and intermediate lifter need to do to keep progressing.

Unless Plan Strong is a concept rather than a specific program, I pretty much doubt it can serve recreational and elite lifters alike. Their respective needs are WAY too far apart and different.

I’m not trying to diminish SF’s programs in any conceivable way. There’s no need to get all defensive about it.

Sorry if I came off as defensive or offensive about it.

I don't think I know any more about the specifics of Plan Strong than you do. I just tried to point out that despite you enjoying how some of the StrongFirst approach suits you and other people without very serious strength aspirations, that's not all they have to offer, and they're very clear about it. So the original question was, in my opinion, very much justified.

Now, your question about the differences in Plan Strong programming, say for a 300lbs deadlift Vs a 900lbs deadlift is a good one and one I'd like to see answered myself. In a way it gets to the point of the original question: we've seen people achieve a 300lbs deadlift with Plan Strong programming, how about a 900lbs deadlift? Personally, I would settle for 800lbs as well - a joke, if you will.

 

[Starlord]

Well what are strongfirst methods? To my knowledge they are training methods to acheive various effects by the USSR back when they dominated sports.

Strongfirsts worked to make these methods simple and palletable for the average person. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So all of the Russian Weightlifting Team will be using aspects of Strongfirst methods. Variable loading principles.

This is also the case with the Russian National Powerlifting Team and in extension all the those that are clients of Boris Sheiko. As well as those that trained under him as coaches as well. I would argue Boris Sheiko is easily the best powerlifting coach in history.

This is just one example. So you could argue yes there are elite weightlifters and powerlifters using strongfirst methodologies.

 

[Philippe Geoffrion]

I think Louie Simmons has aptly described Pavel’s methods as “reverse engineering what the elite naturally do.”

 

[Alan Mackey]

I think Louie Simmons has aptly described Pavel’s methods as “reverse engineering what the elite naturally do.”

And, if I recall correctly, Donnie Thompson said that front squatting a pair of kettlebells was fine. But we all know that he didin’t achieve his inhuman total over 3.000lbs. doing DKBFS.

Context is everything.

In my opinion, the true genius behind the SF programs is reverse engineering what the elite naturally do… and adapting those methods to the regular joe.

The poison is in the dose.

 

[silveraw]

Ben Eisenmenger uses SF programming and just won the US strongman national championship

That is probably the most recent relevant one I can think of without going back to when half the west side guys were RKC.

Edit: also forgot that SF used to have a deadlift team: StrongFirst Deadlift Team Pulls Strong | StrongFirst

What ever happened to that?

 

[Starlord]

Ben Eisenmenger uses SF programming and just won the US strongman national championship

That is probably the most recent relevant one I can think of without going back to when half the west side guys were RKC.

Edit: also forgot that SF used to have a deadlift team: StrongFirst Deadlift Team Pulls Strong | StrongFirst

What ever happened to that?

That looks awesome.

 

[Starlord]

Ben Eisenmenger uses SF programming and just won the US strongman national championship

That is probably the most recent relevant one I can think of without going back to when half the west side guys were RKC.

Edit: also forgot that SF used to have a deadlift team: StrongFirst Deadlift Team Pulls Strong | StrongFirst

What ever happened to that?

That looks awesome.

And, if I recall correctly, Donnie Thompson said that front squatting a pair of kettlebells was fine. But we all know that he didin’t achieve his inhuman total over 3.000lbs. doing DKBFS.

Context is everything.

In my opinion, the true genius behind the SF programs is reverse engineering what the elite naturally do… and adapting those methods to the regular joe.

The poison is in the dose.

100%

It's about picking the right methods for your goal. If you are an elite powerlifter then you aren't going to have any interest in the mainstream SF stuff.

They will be looking at things like variable loading, intelligent use of accessories, increasing volume over time, then tapering for meet day success.

Strongfirst is much more than just kettlebells.

 

[Steve Freides]

Ben Eisenmenger uses SF programming and just won the US strongman national championship

That is probably the most recent relevant one I can think of without going back to when half the west side guys were RKC.

Edit: also forgot that SF used to have a deadlift team: StrongFirst Deadlift Team Pulls Strong | StrongFirst

What ever happened to that?

We'd be happy to see that happen again.

I remember that meet. My wife had come to PA with me, but we had an emergency at home with one of our kids, so after I'd weighed-in and we'd checked into the hotel, we had to check out and drive home that same evening, which was the day before the meet, so I never got to lift.

At one AAU meet, in perhaps 2005 or so, the team was Pavel, Brett, and me.

-S-

 

[Steve Freides]

if I recall correctly, Donnie Thompson said that front squatting a pair of kettlebells was fine. But we all know that he didin’t achieve his inhuman total over 3.000lbs. doing DKBFS.

Yes, but he gives credit to adding kettlebells to his training because, once he did, he broke through some long-standing plateaus in his training. And, if memory serves, it was several sets of 10 with a pair of 40 kg kettlebells - at least that was one of the exercises he did.

-S-

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I wonder what template Michael Phelps followed. Do you think he followed the Tonal or Endless Pool template?

I wonder what template Lasha Talakhadze follows. Crossfit maybe?

Elite athletes, in general, follow what their coach tells them to do. Coaches have influences, but I don't know any (and I admit the sample of coaches I know personally is small) working with elite athletes that follow straight up templates.

 

[DocMike]

Ben Eisenmenger uses SF programming and just won the US strongman national championship

That is probably the most recent relevant one I can think of without going back to when half the west side guys were RKC.

Edit: also forgot that SF used to have a deadlift team: StrongFirst Deadlift Team Pulls Strong | StrongFirst

What ever happened to that?

Ben is my coach and we are using Rogozhnikov + S&S for me right now. I am not world class elite but have a 537, 400, 550 total at 51yo and raw. Ben is a fantastic guy and coach

 

[DocMike]

A good and interesting question.

First, I would like that we define "elite". To me, it is a very high standard, though I'm not sure what exactly. Top 2% of IPF worldwide open yearly rankings?

You can find the standards for elite all over the internet. Although federations differ in small ways they will list totals and individual lifts as elite based on BW and age.

 

[DocMike]

Sorry if I came off as defensive or offensive about it.

I don't think I know any more about the specifics of Plan Strong than you do. I just tried to point out that despite you enjoying how some of the StrongFirst approach suits you and other people without very serious strength aspirations, that's not all they have to offer, and they're very clear about it. So the original question was, in my opinion, very much justified.

Now, your question about the differences in Plan Strong programming, say for a 300lbs deadlift Vs a 900lbs deadlift is a good one and one I'd like to see answered myself. In a way it gets to the point of the original question: we've seen people achieve a 300lbs deadlift with Plan Strong programming, how about a 900lbs deadlift? Personally, I would settle for 800lbs as well - a joke, if you will.

This is a great question and I am finding this out is spades. I am running Rogoznikov and I am finding is way too unintense for me (is that a word) and I think this is because my weights lifted (despite being in the proper range) are not nearly as stimulating as a 900lbs Squatter doing the exact same rep range and %. I have heard on other forums that an 80% of 600 is as draining as an 80% of 1000 because it is 80%...this is absolutely not true and this is why larger heavier lifting athletes need much more recovery than smaller lighter lifting athletes.