Other/Mixed endurance program 3x3 basketball

[minda]

My question is about endurance (fitness level) training for team sport, specifically 3x3 basketball.
In short about sport, 3x3 basketball is played on one basket, three players vs three players with one substitution, with only 12 sec for offence, for total of 10 min. You must be able to defend against much bigger guys, 20-40 kg , and 20 cm higher and is very demanding like rugby7. It seems like you are always running somewhere to fight .

I think conditioning is my weak spot, but my volume of running is big so I am doing something wrong.

I would like to ask you if You can help me with this issue, and prepare for me some good conditioning program to follow (Please if You have experience in athlete preparation and conditioning join this conversation). I am no trainer , just someone who wants to change his weak points into strong one (but does not have the knowledge).
Of course I will pay if the price is not to high for me. Sure you need more information about me, my history, goals, sport etc. but for now I think there is no reason to go in details.

Cheers!

 

[Bauer]

"The Quick and the Dead" by Pavel should be a great fit. I think the science behind it fits the bill. But it is for more advanced trainees.

So, what is your experience with strength training in general and kettlebell training in particular?

Something that could work: Kettlebell ballistics (swing or snatch) in sets of 5-10 reps with enough rest to focus on maximal explosiveness, again and again (2-4x per week) + very easy aerobic endurance training + some "glycolitic" peaking 2-3 weeks before tournaments or so.

Sprint repeats could also work: very short sprints + plenty of rest.

 

[minda]

"The Quick and the Dead" by Pavel should be a great fit. I think the science behind it fits the bill. But it is for more advanced trainees.

So, what is your experience with strength training in general and kettlebell training in particular?

Something that could work: Kettlebell ballistics (swing or snatch) in sets of 5-10 reps with enough rest to focus on maximal explosiveness, again and again (2-4x per week) + very easy aerobic endurance training + some "glycolitic" peaking 2-3 weeks before tournaments or so.

Sprint repeats could also work: very short sprints + plenty of rest.

Thank You for your inputs, will try all of the above.
My main problem is how to connect all of it in program which will progress me foward. I always trained with "one more rep" mentality, so probably made many mistakes that kill my gains, and set me back.
Is there any one you know who is proffesional at this, anybody at this forum who has experience at this and can made a good program based on strong first principle. My experience in kettlebell is limited, only swings, and goblet squat, but for sure I will get deeper in it.

Thank for any answers that will help me!
Cheers!

 

[godjira1]

I think building a strength/endurance base via Simple and Sinister or some max strength using PTTP for 4-6 weeks is best approach for your needs. Conditioning for basketball is probably... continue playing lots of basketball!

 

[Spartan Agoge]

I think running is pretty much useless for your sport.
You must train as you fight. If i were you, I would do some intense HIIT for 15 minutes, 3 times a week(hill sprints would be the best option), and a low volume-high intensity strength routine.

 

[Steve Freides]

@minda, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

-S-

 

[Molson]

Here’s an article on training that well supported basketball. But it is more advanced.

No Pain, Less Strain, More Gain—What the...? | StrongFirst

If you’re looking for a way to boost strength, endurance and athleticism that doesn’t require a more-more-more approach, look no further.

www.strongfirst.com

I do agree that Simple and Sinister should be your choice. It can be well paired with other activities. You don’t need rocket since programming, keep it simple. You’re swinging already, just dial it in as power production 10 sets of 10 reps and use proper heavier weights. Turkish getup will supplement your unilateral basketball moves well, like crossovers as well as balance.

I also agree that you should train as for fighting due to the timeframe of your sport. S&S has a well proven record on this forum for preparing for such circumstances. And most martial artists here rely on its simplicity in programming.

Last, I had a 4 year break from basketball myself and after a year of S&S I was surprised that I was in perfect shape for balling when I went on the court. Obviously my feel for the ball and precision was not there, but I was ready for some serious playing, which never happened after a long break before.

 

[minda]

Here’s an article on training that well supported basketball. But it is more advanced.

No Pain, Less Strain, More Gain—What the...? | StrongFirst

If you’re looking for a way to boost strength, endurance and athleticism that doesn’t require a more-more-more approach, look no further.

www.strongfirst.com

I do agree that Simple and Sinister should be your choice. It can be well paired with other activities. You don’t need rocket since programming, keep it simple. You’re swinging already, just dial it in as power production 10 sets of 10 reps and use proper heavier weights. Turkish getup will supplement your unilateral basketball moves well, like crossovers as well as balance.

I also agree that you should train as for fighting due to the timeframe of your sport. S&S has a well proven record on this forum for preparing for such circumstances. And most martial artists here rely on its simplicity in programming.

Last, I had a 4 year break from basketball myself and after a year of S&S I was surprised that I was in perfect shape for balling when I went on the court. Obviously my feel for the ball and precision was not there, but I was ready for some serious playing, which never happened after a long break before.

Thank you Molson for you inputs I appreciate it very much. Can you please explain to me how often to do it (total volume in a week, days for rest, on witch days to add sprints etc... Once again THANKS!

 

[Molson]

Thank you Molson for you inputs I appreciate it very much. Can you please explain to me how often to do it (total volume in a week, days for rest, on witch days to add sprints etc... Once again THANKS!

I suggest you read the book, S&S 2.0, it’s all explained there. The key about this program is listening I to your body and not overtraining. The amount of sessions you can do per week will depend on your main training. It could be 2, could be 4-5. The rule of thumb is on days you train/play ball, you want to separate your S&S sessions as much as possible, so like kettlebells in the morning, basketball in the afternoon or evening.

You will probably not need anything else, by that I mean sprints, if you are swinging and balling.

The article below explained well how you should approach your KB training when it’s just a supplement for your sport. It’s about MMA but I’m confident it would work the same for basketball or other similar team, high intensity contact sports.

S&C Training for MMA With Simple & Sinister | StrongFirst

Here is a summary of our basic S&C Training for MMA with UFC fighter Viktor Pešta - including his strength and conditioning training, how he ate, and more.

www.strongfirst.com

 

[Don Fairbanks]

Add some lateral movement to the list, and rope skipping, and box jumps. Cone drills with short rest periods could help. Sprint forward 10 meters, shuffle left or right10 meters, back peddle 10m, shuffle 10m to starting point, repeat.

 

[minda]

I suggest you read the book, S&S 2.0, it’s all explained there. The key about this program is listening I to your body and not overtraining. The amount of sessions you can do per week will depend on your main training. It could be 2, could be 4-5. The rule of thumb is on days you train/play ball, you want to separate your S&S sessions as much as possible, so like kettlebells in the morning, basketball in the afternoon or evening.

You will probably not need anything else, by that I mean sprints, if you are swinging and balling.

The article below explained well how you should approach your KB training when it’s just a supplement for your sport. It’s about MMA but I’m confident it would work the same for basketball or other similar team, high intensity contact sports.

S&C Training for MMA With Simple & Sinister | StrongFirst

Here is a summary of our basic S&C Training for MMA with UFC fighter Viktor Pešta - including his strength and conditioning training, how he ate, and more.

www.strongfirst.com

Hi Molton, I attached my heart rate readings during my Simple and Sinnister routine. I am doing swings with 32kg two handed and TGU with 24 kg), for my sport and goals (bigger endurance in 3x3 basketball) should I change something, should my HR be bigger, etc?? Thanks for any inputs!

 

[minda]

"The Quick and the Dead" by Pavel should be a great fit. I think the science behind it fits the bill. But it is for more advanced trainees.

So, what is your experience with strength training in general and kettlebell training in particular?

Something that could work: Kettlebell ballistics (swing or snatch) in sets of 5-10 reps with enough rest to focus on maximal explosiveness, again and again (2-4x per week) + very easy aerobic endurance training + some "glycolitic" peaking 2-3 weeks before tournaments or so.

Sprint repeats could also work: very short sprints + plenty of rest.

Hi Bauer, I attached my heart rate readings during my Simple and Sinnister routine. I am doing swings with 32kg two handed and TGU with 24 kg), for my sport and goals (bigger endurance in 3x3 basketball) should I change something, should my HR be bigger, etc?? Thanks for any inputs!!

 

[Anna C]

Hi @minda and welcome!

Your HR is high-ish for your swings. Would like to see a more significant rise and a more significant drop between sets. This is only one clue of many (and a poor substitute from actually seeing your swings), and could be a few things... But I would suggest as a start, giving yourself more time between sets of swings -- another 30-60 seconds in addition to what you are already doing, and focus on your recovery breathing. Do you have a copy of the Revised and Updated S&S? Revisit pg 105-107 (Secrets of Breath Mastery) and 77-80 on using the talk test and giving yourself plenty of rest between sets.

As for your conditioning overall for basketball -- what we're seeing here could be related... and S&S could help you, if you use it correctly.

 

[minda]

Dont have the book but i will get it as soon as possible. So what do you recommend my hr to be around 140-150, should I increase the volume say 13-15 sets, 8 reps and increase recovery so my hr drops to 120-130? I try to breath through my nose the whole time doing s&s. Is this article something that you think I should try How to Train to Be Unstoppable | T Nation. Thank a lot for any input, and for your quick answers!

 

[Anna C]

should I increase the volume say 13-15 sets, 8 reps

You could do something like that -- it's a good thought, and in line with your goals -- but then it's not S&S, so then there are other variables to work with and consider. The easiest thing to recommend for you to do via the forum is to do S&S as written, and then we can all guide you on how to do that.

my hr to be around 140-150... increase recovery so my hr drops to 120-130

There isn't really a target HR to try to hit on the upper end -- just do a good set of powerful 10 swings. Your HR will then do whatever it will do. But then, yes, increase recovery so your HR really drops and body settles back down to calm and ready after the set before you go again for the next one. Looking at your graph I would say try waiting until it drops to 110, or a full 2 minutes rest, whichever is sooner. Do this for a few weeks and then see if it starts to respond better. Focus on good deep recovery breaths using your diaphragm.

Is this article something that you think I should try How to Train to Be Unstoppable | T Nation.

You could. I think S&S will give you the same or better benefit. And you'll get a lot more support here on this forum for S&S.

Dont have the book but i will get it as soon as possible.

Definitely get the book! There's lots of great insight there. Far more than just the program basics.

 

[Molson]

Dont have the book but i will get it as soon as possible. So what do you recommend my hr to be around 140-150, should I increase the volume say 13-15 sets, 8 reps and increase recovery so my hr drops to 120-130? I try to breath through my nose the whole time doing s&s. Is this article something that you think I should try How to Train to Be Unstoppable | T Nation. Thank a lot for any input, and for your quick answers!

The Article is interesting, but just keep in mind, you need a baseline strength level, conditioning can be achieved by your sport itself. If you are going to buy books, get Easy Strength! It’s not expensive if you buy Kindle and, as the subtitle says: ‘how to get stronger than your competition and dominate in your sport’. It includes a lot of even less demanding than S&S training concepts, as well as insights on how to get your vertical jump better, how to Approach your strength training smart so it does not take away the focus from your main event and many many more!

 

[minda]

You could do something like that -- it's a good thought, and in line with your goals -- but then it's not S&S, so then there are other variables to work with and consider. The easiest thing to recommend for you to do via the forum is to do S&S as written, and then we can all guide you on how to do that.



There isn't really a target HR to try to hit on the upper end -- just do a good set of powerful 10 swings. Your HR will then do whatever it will do. But then, yes, increase recovery so your HR really drops and body settles back down to calm and ready after the set before you go again for the next one. Looking at your graph I would say try waiting until it drops to 110, or a full 2 minutes rest, whichever is sooner. Do this for a few weeks and then see if it starts to respond better. Focus on good deep recovery breaths using your diaphragm.



You could. I think S&S will give you the same or better benefit. And you'll get a lot more support here on this forum for S&S.



Definitely get the book! There's lots of great insight there. Far more than just the program basics.

So you say that rest between 10x 10 kettlebell swings can (or must) be longer??). Currently I am doing 10reps cca 15 sec work 45 sec rest, x10. Looking for the book 2.0, I have the first edition 1.0

 

[Anna C]

So you say that rest between 10x 10 kettlebell swings can (or must) be longer??). Currently I am doing 10reps cca 15 sec work 45 sec rest, x10. Looking for the book 2.0, I have the first edition 1.0

It can be longer, yes. It should be longer, if longer helps you do a more powerful and focused set on your next round.

This is a mindset shift for many people, who measure "getting better" only by their ability to do 10x10 in less time, and chase this too quickly. You will see if you get 2.0, the mindset is more towards "give yourself plenty of recovery time, do better swings, then when your swings are excellent, maximally powerful, laser focused, and the best they can be, and you are fully recovered quicker, then maybe reduce the rest between sets." You will get a better training effect with this focus.

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

There's guys on this forum who know a lot more about endurance training than me... but, one thing I've learned is that, if you are doing a lot of running but still feel like your conditioning is lagging, you might be running too hard. Doing a lot of hard running will make you good at running hard - which may not necessarily translate into performing better at basketball. But easier running will better build heart capacity, which should have more carryover, both on the court and in enabling your strength/power training.

KB swings are great for developing power. I've also had some good results using burpees to train jumping power. But the idea is the same in both case; get plenty of rest and express maximum power each rep, as opposed to going until you burn out.

 

[Denny Phillips]

As a former college basketball player and fairly tall guy (6'6" in college, 6'5" now at age 63) I would encourage you to consider an Easy Strength format. Do the fundamental human movements with load and add loaded carries at the end. 2x5 on everything for forty training sessions. You should end your workout feeling better than when you started. When the weight feels easy increase it. This will allow you to gain strength while being able to perform skill work. 80% of your time should be spent on skill acquisition and 20% on strength development although you can fudge these percentages upward toward the strength training when in an off season mode.

Hip strength is a necessity IMO and this is coming from a guy who had a gap in it for a long time. Train your squat pattern with Goblet Squats in your warm-up, otherwise I would suggest making a deadlift variation the centerpiece over squatting. The trap bar gives a good compromise between the squat and hinge and is forgiving to tall people in the event that you are tall. I would also start with an overhead press for your pressing movement over a bench press, although the bench and its variations come into the picture as time goes on.

I have been a strength and conditioning coach at the D-III level in the past and believe that conditioning for endurance can come in the form of simply changing levels. For example, if your are a post-type player take a basketball or medicine ball and jump up facing a wall and tap the ball on the wall once for each jump, usually five times, then immediately hit the floor and do one push-up. Sprint to the opposite end of the court and do two push-ups. Continue the progression until you have reached five push-ups. Rest then repeat the cycle one more time.

End strength work with some type of loaded carry. Crawling can be incorporated. Carry a bag of water softener salt for a given distance, set it down and crawl twenty yards out then back. Baby crawls are a good start but if your shoulders and abs aren't barking at you then you might need to opt for bear crawls or leopard crawls.

At the end of forty days some good things should have happened. Then we can talk about other ideas.