all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Enter the kettlebell for cross training

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

Waylander

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi all,

First let me introduce myself, my name is Kyle from the UK. I am an ex-boxer (welterweight) who had some shoulder injuries/surgeries and over the past few years have been doing a little weight training (barbell/dumbbell) to get by. My wife has decided to take part in some triathlons of late and wanted me to have a go with her, the problem is these days I hate running without purpose (too much of it boxing) and I cant get to a pool easily (hours of work) but I can do some cycling at the weekend. I also do not want to look like a typical triathlete (yes my vanity coming into play).

I do not mind losing a bit of muscle and trimming down a bit again (14st at 5 foot 10 at the moment) to maybe 11-12st. I was wondering if anyone had experience or any thoughts of me simply doing the enter the kettlebell program and whenever I get the opportunity doing some specific skill training (swimming/cycling) whenever opportunity arises?

On a side note like a lot of people on this site I love deadlifting and wondered how you may go about plugging that into the training program, I was thinking maybe once a week on a Saturday and then taking the Sunday off or maybe a slow cycle.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Kind regards

Kyle
 
@Waylander welcome to StrongFirst!

ETK is a press program. If you want a bigger press and/or you feel improving your press will help move you towards your triathlon goal, then it's a good choice.

Kettlebell Simple & Sinister is more of a general program and, all other things being equal, would get my recommendation for you.

Of the the sports in a tri, swimming is usually the one people without experience need to work on most. I'd find a way to get pool time and instruction if I were you.

-S-
 
Hi Steve,

Thank you for the reply, the reason that I chose ETK over S&S is because I felt that would help me maintain some muscle mass along (c+p, pullups) and conditioning (swings) with the off days some get ups, extra conditioning or skill training (swimming as you mentioned that seems to be the trickiest). The triathlon is not really an end goal it is something that I want to do with my wife while using it as a reason to become a bit more athletic again (feel a bit heavy at 14st when I used to box at 10-11st). I felt that ETK was a more rounded program for overall GPP. I have always been able to use a good amount of weight with the TGU (dumbbell) but never noticed it carry over to my press (maybe I wasn't doing it correctly or programming it right).

Sorry for my waffle, kind of typing thoughts that come into my head.

regards

Kyle
 
S&S isn't slanted towards hypertrophy the way the ROP can be, but if you want to lose weight and maintain muscle mass S&S will work just fine. Especially if you can do the TGU's with substantial weight. For what it's worth, I am 5'10" and have been within a couple pounds of 11st (yeah, I had to google the st/lb conversion) for the last couple years. During that time I've done a few multi-month periods of S&S, as well as quite a few S&S-like programs. Obviously, you have a different body than I do, but my point is that S&S will keep an "athletic" level on muscle mass on you. You won't get huge, but you won't be a skinny endurance-only triathlete either. If you want to make S&S more of a focused conditioning program, add more sets of swings and rest a little more between sets (although at that point it's not S&S, it's more along the lines of an A+A protocol like the one's Al Ciampa has developed).

In regard to TGU's and pressing strenth, check out this thread, it covers that pretty in depth.
 
Patrick the distances are swim 1500m, cycle 40km, run 10km. Okay so if we said that I wanted to keep the ETK c+p routine for my strength purposes. I have done TGUs for a long time now for mobility and stability so will keep them in. I have not done any hard conditioning since I stopped fighting which I will be wanting to use swings for and just use the swimming for skill specific when I can.

Can I use swings like I used to running but with added resistance, so sprints 3 days long slower 3 others? or will that likely be too much and I should stick to the 10 minute sets and get the resistance up?

Or do you think best for me would be to stick to 5/3/1 which is what I do now and the add in S&S or swings for my conditioning?
 
S&S isn't exactly what I'd call a hypertrophy program - until the weights get heavy, and then I think people find it changes.

5' 10" and 10 stone seems crazy light, so does 11 stone - 12 sounds like a reasonable weight.

You might also consider, particularly since you'll be training endurance in sport-specific ways, doing some exercises that lends themselves more towards adding muscle, and those usually involve a barbell. Pavel's "Power To The People!" is a program that you can do while training other things - might want to have a look at that.

-S-
 
Several years ago, I was doing Enter the Kettlebell while training for a marathon. If I remember correctly, I did the three days of ETK and 3 days of running. I did not do any variety days as discussed in ETK. Heavy deadlifts and distance running were never a good combination for me.
 
Steve Freides said:
5' 10" and 10 stone seems crazy light, so does 11 stone
Click to expand...
Haha you're not wrong. For me, my body just happens to like that weight, though I gain about a pound a year. Steve brings up a good point, though @Waylander , depending on how long ago it was that you weighed 11st, you may find that you actually feel and perform better at a heavier weight now. Don't get too attached to scale numbers; as long as your endurance numbers are getting better and your strength numbers aren't taking a dive, you're probably doing something right. Of course, losing 20+ pounds will make it a lot easier to move yourself from one place to another (and more aerodynamic on that bike ;)).
 
Last edited:
Several years ago my wife and I did triathlons. Right around when Enter the Kettlebell first came out. I used the right of passage for my weight training and it worked fairly well. I didn't really push the presses too hard, though. I did it mostly as a way to maintain my strength. Single arm presses are easier to recover from than heavy barbell presses and swings actually felt good and were a nice change of pace from the endurance training. Don't neglect training for the events. If you have a good overall base of fitness and you're doing the short "sprint" triathlon, then you may be able to get by with minimal event training but you will have a miserable time. I don't recommend this.

The Swim: Steve is right - if you're not a great swimmer and/or don't have lots of experience then you really need to find a way to swim. Swimming is very dependent on technique. Even a very fit and lean person will be tired after the swim if the person's technique is inefficient simply because so much energy will be wasted. Find some free Youtube videos that discuss tips on being more efficient. Or buy a video. I bought this one and it helped a lot: https://www.amazon.com/Go-Swim-Freestyle-Karlyn-Pipes-Neilsen/dp/B000FSL8W6 Every triathlete hates the swim unless they were a competitive swimmer in the past.

The Bike: If you like cycling and get some long rides in then you're in luck. There is a school of thought that says the best thing for triathlon training is to "ride lots." Maybe not a whole school but me and like two other guys on the Internet. But I learned this philosophy from them. The ride lots school says that riding lots will help build an endurance based than can help in the other two disciplines, especially the run. The bike portion makes up the biggest percentage of any race - the three disciplines were never meant to be equalized in terms of length. Riding lots will build up reserve endurance in the legs so that the run will suck less. I recommend doing several rides that are longer than the ride in your event and the longer the better.

The Run: Running after cycling sucks. Your legs will feel like they have weights tied to them, but this will go away after you've run for a few minutes. The ride lots philosophy will help a lot here. I know you said that running is not your favorite, but at least get a run in that is as long as the run in your event.
 
Thank you very much for all the responses. When I mentioned weight numbers it was more for what I did not want to drop below :) When I did try a run I felt to heavy at my current weight but for me these days 12st is probably about right, but I wont have a target weight anymore, had enough of that, probably why I then put on 3 1/2 stone lol.

I have not swum properly since college but was a decent swimmer (short distance) definitely agree that longer distance swimming will kill me. The cycling thing had occurred to me and I am glad that it is a school of thought.

I think from what people have said doing 3 days ETK and 3 triathlon specific might be the way to go for me. I may also have a go at a sprint Triathlon first to see how it goes.

One final thing is I suffer from a downwardly rotated left shoulder that causes me pain and swimming is going to make it worse as it is something swimmers can suffer from. Would doing some TGUs in the morning help prevent this?

Thanks again all.
 
I'd recommend reading Tactical Barbell 2 (the conditioning book). It contains a base building block that fits what you're looking for.

Basically it's an 8 week phase consisting of aerobic base building + strength-endurance. It provides session guidelines/frequencies/Heartrate/duration and you customize it by choosing your method (LISS running, rucking, cycling, swimming etc).

When you do Base, you can incorporate kettlebells during the strength-endurance circuits, or even run S&S instead, it pretty much fits the guidelines.

So for example you could do 3 S&S sessions + 3-6 "E" or what they call endurance sessions (cardio). Your E sessions can be triathlon specific.
 
Waylander said:
One final thing is I suffer from a downwardly rotated left shoulder that causes me pain and swimming is going to make it worse as it is something swimmers can suffer from. Would doing some TGUs in the morning help prevent this?
Click to expand...
Best to talk to your doctor and then a swimming coach on this one, or perhaps a physical therapist. Getups might do the trick if you're lucky, but probably good to have some things that specifically address this.

-S-
 
I had to put up this triathlon mass swim start "simulation training." Okay, maybe not that bad, but there is definitely some thrashing and kicking in a mass start. Something you should be ready for.

 
That commercial is brilliant. I am not sure I will not get disqualified in that bit if people are all whacking me lol. I couldn't get to the pool this week so I decided to try the long cycle,I quite liked it , I know it is a different style to you guys but has anyone had any success with it?
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom