Kettlebell "Enter the Kettlebell" Questions

[Deleted member 5559]

Yep, I hear you regarding following bad programs. I lifted weights for over 10 years before I even learned what a deadlift is. I didn't even know it was something i should get good at. The football coach in highschool didn't have us performing any programs - we bench pressed and cleaned on the first day to see who might be good at what but that was it. I didn't know the big compound movements were the basics or the foundation of strength let alone how to get better at them. I thought you hypertrophied a muscle and that was that just like FLEX said to. The institutional knowledge around strength training has been isolation training from the bodybuilding world for a long time. I think those doing kickbacks just don't know the basics are the basics. They think the bench press and delt raise are basics. On top of that, they think the hypertrophy volume/intensity is the only way to train. What we get is a bunch of people doing 3x10 triceps kickbacks with a weight they can perform that volume in an isolated movement - that happens to be pink .

It would be great to see an SF magazine on the shelf. I don't really care for CrossFit but one thing i really like about it is that it helped a lot of the fitness world learn what the basics really are. I was at a globo-gym once doing TGUs and this lady was walking by with her trainer and said she wanted to "try those", he politely told her to go back to her isolation training. Not only do trainees not know, too many trainers don't seem to know either - or they simply avoid the basics for liability or dependency reasons.

 

[Artur]

I don't remember who said it but the elite are separated from the rest of us because they do the basics better.....or words to that effect (haven't had my coffee yet)

"The only thing that separates the elite from all the rest is the fact that the elite are better at the basics than everyone else." - M. Sgt. Duane Stanton of the USAF Pararescue

You're Welcome

In fact we have the very same approach in BJJ practice. Some people tend to skip basics in order to gain advance by mastering some flashy moves they've seen on ADCC, Youtube. They try to copy best jiujitsu players to get that extra advantage over other gym members. They think that everyone knows basic moves, techniques, so it is hard to surprise someone with those moves. The truth is that practitioners who really master basics can still win because their timing, attention to detail and execution are so great. Flashy moves can be a cherry on top of the cake, a way to distract your opponent, get You an unexpected win every now and then, etc. Winning most of the time comes down to mastering the basics.
"Everything in life goes back to the basics." Kron Gracie

 

[John Grahill]

Artur, you are very right regarding YouTube and the like. Search for clean and press as an example and you'll see people seemingly experts who are performing a sloppy clean and a push press......great exercise, but not a strict press. Some of the kettlebell exercises performed are with atrocious form at best!

I generally have stopped viewing them unless I recognize the performer as someone affiliated with Strongfirst because otherwise it's usually a mix of wannabe experts or some cross fit crazy who sacrifices form for an additional rep!

 

[Anna C]

"The only thing that separates the elite from all the rest is the fact that the elite are better at the basics than everyone else." - M. Sgt. Duane Stanton of the USAF Pararescue

You're Welcome

In fact we have the very same approach in BJJ practice.

For anyone interested in a great book that explores this concept in depth: "The Art of Learning" by Josh Waitzkin.

 

[Lew]

For anyone interested in a great book that explores this concept in depth: "The Art of Learning" by Josh Waitzkin.

Hi Anna,

A long time ago you recommended Audible to me.

I wanted to follow up with you and let you know that I now use it about 6 hours a day and it has added greater dimension to my life in many ways.

Primarily I use it for self-help and self-development and it has helped me save my sanity as well as my marriage, and become a better husband, father, and person overall.

Keep spreading the word.

Some of us are listening!

 

[Anna C]

That's great, Lew! Thanks for the feeback, much appreciated. That book mentioned above is another one read by the author, and I promise that listening to that one will be a VERY valuable experience.

 

[Kozushi]

"The only thing that separates the elite from all the rest is the fact that the elite are better at the basics than everyone else." - M. Sgt. Duane Stanton of the USAF Pararescue

You're Welcome

In fact we have the very same approach in BJJ practice. Some people tend to skip basics in order to gain advance by mastering some flashy moves they've seen on ADCC, Youtube. They try to copy best jiujitsu players to get that extra advantage over other gym members. They think that everyone knows basic moves, techniques, so it is hard to surprise someone with those moves. The truth is that practitioners who really master basics can still win because their timing, attention to detail and execution are so great. Flashy moves can be a cherry on top of the cake, a way to distract your opponent, get You an unexpected win every now and then, etc. Winning most of the time comes down to mastering the basics.
"Everything in life goes back to the basics." Kron Gracie

BJJ is awesome.

 

[Kozushi]

@Kozushi I would say use the 28 for now and emphasize precision on each rep.. ypi can always compress rest periods when it gets too easy.

If memory serves me right you do judo correct?

the emphasis on precision of technique in judo applies to kettlebells too

Yes, judo. I stopped it due to extreme busyness in my life and replaced it with Strongfirst training this year. Thanks for the advice. I don't have a 28 but I have a 24 and I'll use that one instead of the 32. The 32 was seeming a bit weird to use as I could only do one rep at a time.

I'm still feeling perplexed about being about to give up the daily S&S routine. It's like my security blanket like whoever the comic character was back in the day in Snoopy or whatever. I'm also not understanding the relationship between ROP (Enter the Kettlebell), S&S and then the SFG certifications. They're all significantly different from one another. I don't understand the differences in one's goals in order to decide to pursue one or the other, and I don't understand how they fit together (on not). Ah... Anyhow, Steve Friedes, who I think is the top level fellow in SF on the forums, gave me a programme to follow, which I am VERY happy about getting. I'm getting super excited about getting to the owning of S&S and then jumping over to ROP until the goals are met and then back to continue S&S. I did "cheat" a bit and did several days of ROP training instead of my S&S to get a feel for how it is going to be different. My impression is that the ROP is, other than on the calluses of the hands, a much more comfortable workout (if that word is allowable here) as the lower weight for the swings and snatches and the lack of having to get into contorted angles like in the TGU simply makes the whole thing easier to get done overall. The challenge to the skin of the hands in ROP is significant though. I guess I just have to be patient with it and partly get better at handling the bells and partly get tougher hand skin. I'll definitely be including (the optional) pullups in my programme - I've done them my whole life anyhow.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

If you hit "simple", run a cycle of ROP with the 24, it covers most of your needs..

S and S was recommended as a pre-requisite since the swing must be learned before the clean and snatch.. the getup ensures you have enough mobility and stability in the shoulder and thoracic area for overhead work..

Same as in judo, you need to learn breakfalls before you can go to throws

some mobility work and double kb squats, you got most of your needs covered..


and please do let us know how you progress with your programme

 

[Kozushi]

If you hit "simple", run a cycle of ROP with the 24, it covers most of your needs..

S and S was recommended as a pre-requisite since the swing must be learned before the clean and snatch.. the getup ensures you have enough mobility and stability in the shoulder and thoracic area for overhead work..

Same as in judo, you need to learn breakfalls before you can go to throws

some mobility work and double kb squats, you got most of your needs covered..


and please do let us know how you progress with your programme

Ought I to buy a second 24kg or a second 32kg bell for the double squats?
Frankly, I have hit "simple" - I just still find the work challenging, so not "owned" if that's what "owned" is supposed to mean. Maybe I could start into ROP today... I'm eager to do it. I want to do the full programme, so ladders of both the C&P and the pullup, followed by the swings/snatches(depending on what day of the week it is). Would I do ladders of the double kettlebell squats too?

 

[Mark Limbaga]

a second 24 is good..

you're overthinking it my friend. If you feel that you don't own "simple" yet, then work on it again. As for ROP, you only ladder presses (pullups if you wish)

 

[Kozushi]

a second 24 is good..

you're overthinking it my friend. If you feel that you don't own "simple" yet, then work on it again. As for ROP, you only ladder presses (pullups if you wish)

I did a cycle of a ladder of 1,2,3,4,5 C&P with the 24kg, and then did a 1,2,3 ladder of pullups before launching into today's S&S session. It felt great! I noticed the TGUs feeling more strenuous due to having activated similar muscles in the presses, but anyhow it felt GREAT! I think the pullups will be important to keep doing for my grip strength for swings.

The Naked Warrior programme also fascinated/s me but I've found I can do the pistol and OAPU better now while training only S&S than when I was doing NW exclusively! Hahaha! I suppose NW is just for backup for when I don't have my kettlebells with me then!

The mist is slowly starting to feel like it's clearing for me regarding weightlifting theory. I think I'm getting a little somewhere in terms of goals and programming.

 

[John Grahill]

Mark is right on. Don't overthink it, just do it. The ROP has had numerous successes and is a tried and true simple program based on only a few "moving parts" that will payoff in the end.

I've come back to it after a few years of doing doubles programs and barbells, Dumbbells, etc and what I'm enjoying the most is the simplicity of its design.

 

[Kozushi]

Mark is right on. Don't overthink it, just do it. The ROP has had numerous successes and is a tried and true simple program based on only a few "moving parts" that will payoff in the end.

I've come back to it after a few years of doing doubles programs and barbells, Dumbbells, etc and what I'm enjoying the most is the simplicity of its design.

It seems so elegant, simple, terrifically effective. I love it!

The time tested part is a very good point. It's been around 10 years now, I think, and no one is suggesting it needs to be changed or anything like that. Ah, great stuff!