Exhale/ exact moment of hip snap/pop

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by Meghan O'Connell, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. Meghan O'Connell

    Meghan O'Connell Still New to StrongFirst Forum

    Hi. I am preparing to recertify my SFG1 for the third time and finally go for my SFG2, and it's always back to the details on the basics! Which I love :)

    I had a tuneup session with an SFG Elite instructor recently, and some of his feedback was that my exhale was coming too late, somewhat on the swing and particularly on the snatch.

    Intellectually, I know it's supposed to come at the moment of hip snap/pop. (The SFG1 manual states for the snatch to "exhale at the point where you are finishing the high pull phase; do not wait until the lockout.") Maybe it's because I've been doing a more powerlifting style of barbell deadlift lately, with breath held until the top of the lift, but I'm having trouble getting the feel right.

    Any cues/input on what has helped you with this?

    Thanks a lot.
     
    Tim Randolph likes this.
  2. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Director of Community Engagement Staff Member Senior Certified Instructor

    Imagine a punch or kick, accompanied by a loud yell.

    Punch with your hips. Include the yell but say your rep number instead of just, “kya.”

    -S-
     
  3. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Quadruple-Digit Post Count Elite Certified Instructor

  4. Tim Swanson

    Tim Swanson Still New to StrongFirst Forum Certified Instructor

    One cue that I like quite a bit is to exhale twice: once on hip snap, and again on arm lockout. The need to exhale twice prevents your first exhale from coming late. Try to make the first one more forceful, since it's the one that you're actually looking for. The second is just a timing aid.

    Over time, as you get the rhythm, you can cut out the second exhale. You don't really need to, though, if it's not interfering with anything.

    (Note that this is a different technique from 'double breathing', which is a way to increase the breathing tempo during long snatch sessions.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
    Mark Limbaga likes this.
  5. Brett Jones

    Brett Jones StrongFirst Director of Education Staff Member Master Certified Instructor

  6. GeoffreyLevens

    GeoffreyLevens Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    The two different examples linked above appear to my untrained eye to be quite different. Mark exhales during the very start of the hip snap while Bret exhales at the top, just before or as the float starts. I do the latter and feel I lose power doing the former. WHAT?
     
  7. Brett Jones

    Brett Jones StrongFirst Director of Education Staff Member Master Certified Instructor

    Geoffrey
    Some of this is "swing vs. Snatch" and the amount of time between the finish of hips vs. getting the KB overhead in the snatch vs. the top of the swing.

    my exhale finishes as my hips finish (but starts sooner) and Mark may be a bit earlier and "shorter" with is exhale.
     
    WxHerk and Meghan O'Connell like this.
  8. GeoffreyLevens

    GeoffreyLevens Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Brett, I think that is it. I've been doing swings and mostly high pulls for awhile because one shoulder hates it when I try to lock out overhead. But when I was snatching, I did double exhale as mentioned above, one near where you are doing it for swing and second one at lock out.
     
    Meghan O'Connell and Brett Jones like this.
  9. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Quadruple-Digit Post Count Elite Certified Instructor

    The breathing used for the skills snatch is different from the breathing you'll be needing for thr snatch test.

    Context is definitely key :)

    great discussion and questions asked everyone
     
    Meghan O'Connell likes this.
  10. Meghan O'Connell

    Meghan O'Connell Still New to StrongFirst Forum

    Thank you! I also liked your metaphor in the FAQ about loading a pinball machine.
     
  11. Meghan O'Connell

    Meghan O'Connell Still New to StrongFirst Forum

  12. Meghan O'Connell

    Meghan O'Connell Still New to StrongFirst Forum

    Thank you Tim. Reading the SFG1 manual, you can inhale once or twice on the way down, time the exhale with hip snap, and you are allowed to rebreathe all you want at the top, but then how would that be different than longer snatch sessions? i.e. snatch test.

    Although I guess in the snatch test, they are not necessarily as firm on the technical standards, so you could change it up for that portion only? Would love your/other input again if possible.
     
  13. Meghan O'Connell

    Meghan O'Connell Still New to StrongFirst Forum

    Oh, I saw the part about different standards further down in Mark's response.
     
  14. Meghan O'Connell

    Meghan O'Connell Still New to StrongFirst Forum

    Thank you so much for clarifying this!! Totally makes sense when you put it that way :)
     
    Brett Jones likes this.
  15. Tim Swanson

    Tim Swanson Still New to StrongFirst Forum Certified Instructor

    Sorry, I included the bit about the double breathing to try to clear up confusion, and I think I did the opposite. Let me try again.

    The standard breathing pattern for the snatch is:
    • Inhale on the descent
    • Sharp, forceful exhale at the moment that the hips extend
    In many people, there is a tendency for that exhale to come late: at the moment of arm lockout rather than the moment of hip extension.

    A simple technique to correct for this is to exhale twice. (But still only inhale once.)
    • Sharp, forceful exhale at the moment that the hips extend.
    • Another exhale at the moment of arm lockout.
    You'll end up doing two quick exhales in rapid succession on every snatch.

    The purpose of the double exhale is to aid in timing. Doing the second exhale at the "wrong" time forces the first exhale to come at the "right" time. It's a useful corrective for people who are exhaling late. This technique was taught to me at the SFG cert, but I couldn't find it in the manual.

    Once you nail the timing, you can stop doing the second exhale, since it's really only useful as a timing aid.


    (The other comment I made was about "double breathing", which is best described by Derek Toshner in this article. This is a different technique, one designed to improve endurance rather than to correct timing issues. I wanted to make sure that I distinguished between the two. Sorry for the confusion.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
    Anna C likes this.
  16. Meghan O'Connell

    Meghan O'Connell Still New to StrongFirst Forum

    Thanks Tim! Don't worry about confusion; it just always takes me a while to sift through things anyway, so the more clarification the better for how my brain works - which means this is just great, and I really appreciate it! I have been playing with double inhale down (after about a minute or so into my snatch test practice), and exhale at hip snap vs also at the top to see how it goes once I am into heavier 5 reps EMOM snatches. Still have a few weeks to go, and it's all valuable info and practice. Thanks again :)
     

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