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Off-Topic Experiences with Shoulder Injuries

mvikred

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Hi All

I've been dealing from a 'Sub-acromial impingement' and it's most likely a 'Suprasinitus Level 1 Tear'. The symptoms were pain in the deltoid region when I did a military press (only 16kg and above) and when I was doing Elevated rolls/low sweep on the way back with TGU. I've gone through some Manual Therapy and many stretches that essentially loosen the pecs and the lats. All the exercises that I did at the physiotherapist were around increasing Thoracic flexion and Scapular activation. Since, I've educated myself from the plenty of information that's available. However, I've not found any info on how much time typically it takes for this to heal. I continue to do all the exercises to strengthen and stabilise it - internal rotation, external rotation, shoulder raises, etc. etc.

Did anyone on the forum experience something like this? I am not looking for any medical advice but only looking for experiences that others have gone through with similar problem and how they came out of it and how has it been since.
 
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Have you had an MRI? Because that’s really the only way you will know exactly what is going on in there. And depending upon what that really is will factor into determining healing time. Some shoulder tears will not heal... Ever. Such was my situation. Surgery was the only viable option.
 
Have you had an MRI? Because that’s really the only way you will know exactly what is going on in there. And depending upon what that really is will factor into determining healing time. Some shoulder tears will not heal... Ever. Such was my situation. Surgery was the only viable option.
I have been told by the Doc that this can be fixed by mostly exercises. However, if the pain persists after doing all the work, I will get an MRI done. I'll give it a few more weeks before I take the call.
 
Have you had an MRI? Because that’s really the only way you will know exactly what is going on in there. And depending upon what that really is will factor into determining healing time. Some shoulder tears will not heal... Ever. Such was my situation. Surgery was the only viable option.
Did you have a full tear? What were your symptoms like?
 
When I was going to physical therapy for my shoulder injury, there really wasn't much I could do other than what the PT recommended.

I totally understand the frustration of not being able to do more, because the shoulder pain wouldn't allow it. At this early stage, there really might be nothing that can be done other than wait for the healing to happen.

Good luck.
 
Hi All

I've been dealing from a 'Sub-acromial impingement' and it's most likely a 'Suprasinitus Level 1 Tear'. The symptoms were pain in the deltoid region when I did a military press (only 16kg and above) and when I was doing Elevated rolls/low sweep on the way back with TGU. I've gone through some Manual Therapy and many stretches that essentially loosen the pecs and the lats. All the exercises that I did at the physiotherapist were around increasing Thoracic flexion and Scapular activation. Since, I've educated myself from the plenty of information that's available. However, I've not found any info on how much time typically it takes for this to heal. I continue to do all the exercises to strengthen and stabilise it - internal rotation, external rotation, shoulder raises, etc. etc.

Did anyone on the forum experience something like this? I am not looking for any medical advice but only looking for experiences that others have gone through with similar problem and how they came out of it and how has it been since.
Both shoulders. Different issues. In short - I had always scapular stabilisation exercises.
Imho physiotherapy does not help much. Time, stretch pecs, stretch what is stretchable. Scapular stabilisation. Try to press pain free. Do pulling exercises. That's it.
100% - don't do what hurts.
 
Hi All

I've been dealing from a 'Sub-acromial impingement' and it's most likely a 'Suprasinitus Level 1 Tear'. The symptoms were pain in the deltoid region when I did a military press (only 16kg and above) and when I was doing Elevated rolls/low sweep on the way back with TGU. I've gone through some Manual Therapy and many stretches that essentially loosen the pecs and the lats. All the exercises that I did at the physiotherapist were around increasing Thoracic flexion and Scapular activation. Since, I've educated myself from the plenty of information that's available. However, I've not found any info on how much time typically it takes for this to heal. I continue to do all the exercises to strengthen and stabilise it - internal rotation, external rotation, shoulder raises, etc. etc.

Did anyone on the forum experience something like this? I am not looking for any medical advice but only looking for experiences that others have gone through with similar problem and how they came out of it and how has it been since.
I'd send a message to Geoff Ford (bestrong.physio) on the gram since he knows how we operate her and is also a physio

I hurt my shoulder prior to level 2, did lots of commando rocking, hurt again prior to recert in 2016, more neck work helped this time..

Got hurt again in 2018, commando crawling helped this time..

Most pain usually improves after 6 weeks from what I observed.. apart from finding the groove that your body allows, not pushing the envelope is one of the best ways to stay healthy
 
I'd say you're at the start of a life long journey to understand and work with your shoulders.
My impingement was made worse by a bony spur and required surgery.
Consequently the whole process was well over a year.
 
My shoulder issue was months and months of PT and it felt like I got nowhere.

Then one week it just sort of loosened up and went away like magic.
So keep working the PT, there is a payoff at the end
This is unfortunately so true. Every now and then, there is an issue in my left shoulder. It gives all sorts of different signals coming from nowhere and for no reason.

I can tell when and how I gave myself an injury so I learn from mistakes except shoulders.

Every part of my body, I can tell why its nagging, what I have done different that my body did not like it, almost to the moment of injury itself except shoulders.

My left shoulder is like throwing a die every morning, to decide its status.
 
Did you have a full tear? What were your symptoms like?
Yes full labrum tear. Any lateral and overhead work on the affected shoulder elicited sharp pain.
I will also tell you that I had (have) a partial tear on the other shoulder that I have been able to ‘treat’ with non-surgical methods

edit: I’ll note that my doc was a top orthopedic sports surgeon who worked with pro level athletes.
 
When I was going to physical therapy for my shoulder injury, there really wasn't much I could do other than what the PT recommended.

I totally understand the frustration of not being able to do more, because the shoulder pain wouldn't allow it. At this early stage, there really might be nothing that can be done other than wait for the healing to happen.

Good luck.
I fully agree. And with age and wisdom I am at a place where I am comfortable taking a step back :) I got into this game (and kettlebells) with longevity in mind. It beats the purpose if I beat my body up in the pursuit of ageing well !!
 
I spent a good portion of last year dealing with shoulder pain. Seemed like I tried everything and similar to @silveraw I felt like I got nowhere. Finally it responded well to manual therapy.

Sounds like you've already spent lots of time educating yourself but I found this Barbell Medicine shoulder series really good.




 
I have been told by the Doc that this can be fixed by mostly exercises. However, if the pain persists after doing all the work, I will get an MRI done. I'll give it a few more weeks before I take the call.

Encouraging news.

I had a sports doc/orthopedic surgeon take a look at my shoulder injury, and had me go through an MRI.

I was quite happy when he said he didn't think surgery was needed, dispelling the myth that all surgeons want to cut on you no matter what.

He was also the doctor who made the call on a followup visit - months later - to let me graduate from PT and start exercising on my own. The PTs had me doing Theraband rehab exercises and mobility work. So I just continued training with resistance bands after I was back on my own, moving on to stronger bands/cables after the Therabands felt too easy, then eventually transitioning back to regular exercise.
 
I spent a good portion of last year dealing with shoulder pain. Seemed like I tried everything and similar to @silveraw I felt like I got nowhere. Finally it responded well to manual therapy.

Sounds like you've already spent lots of time educating yourself but I found this Barbell Medicine shoulder series really good.




Hey .. thanks a lot for sharing these.

Yes. I have gone down the rabbit hole of figuring out and trying to understand a bit more about the shoulder anatomy and the problem I am facing. It's been very cool to understand how the muscles are layered and how different attachments are to enable certain motions. Pretty cool. Prior to my MBA I did my engineering in 'Computer aided design and automation', which was a lot of robotics, so this stuff definitely felt a lot like that, without going through the trouble of programming how and when the movements should happen :D
 
Very similar story for me. On Sept 9th, hurt my shoulder. Later diagnosed as AC impingement and injury to one of the shoulder muscles (supraspinstus?). Anyways, did Pt, tried rest, tried pushing through, tried more rest, tried more Pt. It is still slightly touch and go, but I’d say I’m 90%healed….

Three weeks ago I started doing pull-ups and (light)jerks every other day. Not only did I feel better after including pull ups, but the lack of an eccentric on the jerks allowed me to work around the injury. Now I’m on the right track and getting better daily. The pull ups helped a ton. As a bonus, easily the sorest my core has ever been (doing pull ups 3x per week).
 
+1 for the Barbell Medicine series.

I was diagnosed with impingement a little over a year ago and did PT but what I gathered through my follow-on research is that impingement is somewhat of an outdated concept. I'm sure there's some disagreement on that subject and I am not knowledgeable enough to debate it myself, but I preferred to think of it as "exercise related shoulder pain" and managed it accordingly -- back off on volume of heavier overhead lifting which aggravated it, and did PT to strengthen rotator cuff muscles. I also got one steroid shot in the problem shoulder. These three things combined seemed to head it back in the right direction, but it still took me another 6-8 months of focused work to really get past the problem I think. I used Crossover Symmetry (still using it) and highly recommend.

Every shoulder problem is probably a little different, so YMMV, but that's my experience, FWIW.
 
In late 2016 my right shoulder started hurting pretty badly after a training session. In early 2017 I had sugery on it. They did a bone spur removal from the under side of the acromion, clean up of arthritic AC joint tissue, and a debridement of the tissues of the labrum and rotator cuff. While I had a partial-thickness tear of the supraspinatus, I was able to avoid a full rotator cuff repair (maybe due to the fact that I told the surgeon repeatedley to only do it if it seemed like there was no other option).

It took me something like 18 months for it to feel normal. Here's my two cents and experiences:

THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE. This is my experience and what I have learned from years of research and recovery.

-the folks at the orthopedic clinic, while nice enough, did not seem to absorb what I was saying when I repeatedly told them "I train gymnastics, and need to be able to do handstands and heavy overhead work." I was originally told "12 weeks to full activity." What they should have said was "12 weeks to picking up a light dumbell without pain." The lesson here was to get crystal clear communication from your providers, whether they are doctors, surgeons, PTs, or whoever.

-Going off the previous point: I wish I had looked around for other PTs in my area to help me get back to what I enjoy. I did a lot of self research and experimentation, and while I eventually got back to normal, it's possible I could've done so faster if I had good guidance. My lesson here is that if who you are working with (even if that's yourself) is not helping, don't be afraid to ask around elsewhere.

-Next, this one is straightforward, but requires a little elaboration. If you're not seeing improvement with what you're doing, try other things. I think it's normal for us to get a bit myopic about injuries. "I injured my shoulder therefore I need a lot of shoulder-specific work." While the tissue and supporting structures definitely need attention, it is also true that shoulder function can be affected by other areas of your body. For example: If you carry most of your weight on on leg (unconsciously), this can cause a "twist" in your hips, which can cause a re-orientation of your ribcage, which can throw off the way your scapulae sit on it, which can affect their stability and function, which may (or may not) lead to shoulder pain/issues. It is for this reason that I recommend seeking out varying opinions and different kinds of methods and approaches to pain and recovery. Not all PTs are versed in the same approaches, and if you end up stuck, it may be that another perspective is needed.

**If you would like some accessible resources regarding the above example, I recommend searching "Conor Harris" on youtube. He makes easy to understand videos about biomechanics and how the different parts of the body affect each other, as well as exercises for various issues.**

-Some general points that helped me in the long run:

  • Don't overdo things. I think I sometimes fell into the trap of "experimenting to see what works" a little too much. This, I believe, ended up overworking my shoulder. More is not better, better is better.
  • Off that last sentence, you should see a gradual improvement over time. Even if there are ups and downs, you should be able to tell a difference a few months down the road.
  • For this reason it is important to keep a journal. Just add in how your shoulder is doing each day in whatever your regular training journal is. If you don't keep one, this is a great time to start. I like to write in red pen when things are feeling worse or not going well, and I use a highlighter for when things feel especially better than normal. This way, when I review my journal, I can see where things were working better or worse and what I was doing around that time. The more red I see, the more I know something is off or too much or something.
  • Journal more than just training. It can be useful to know how you've been sleeping, if you were eating less, drinking more, or stressed, etc. These things can all affect your perception of pain.
  • Speaking of which. . . it has been shown that: the body up-regulates pain sensitivity around injuries, sometimes people will report pain when there is no damage (or the damage has been healed), or they will report no pain when things like MRIs show "damage." So, while I would definitely remain in contact with a medical professional, I tend to base (subjective) injury recovery off of pain free function. If you have less pain and better function over time, you're probably doing good.
  • Going off of that. . . sometimes my shoulder would complain a bit after training/rehab, but then would get better between sessions. So, like stated above, what you really want is a gradual increase in pain-free function, even if there is a little discomfort. Rehabilitation is often NOT a straight line, and is more often a messy, chaotic squiggle. The upward trend is more important that the day-to-day in my experience. If you're having a bad day, just take it easier or rest it.
Exercises that helped me: Your mileage may vary. What worked for me may not help you, but these are things that seemed to help.
  • Once I got over the acute recovery phase, meaning little to no day to day pain, and I could raise my arm, unloaded, overhead without pain: Banded cuban rotations and presses. I used therabands (start light), and did these almost every day. These were, hands down, the first exercise that really gave me good returns. You can also do these unilaterally, with the band anchored to the opposite side of the working arm (anchored to the left if working the right arm) and the arm in front (anteriorly abducted) instead of to the side. The exercise I am referring to is at about 3:40 in the video. You can use a single theraband, you don't need his specific setup.*
  • Serratus slides. A lot of impingement and shoulder issues in general result from poor coordination between the scapula and humerus. These get the scaps moving and have been shown to have greater EMG activation of the serratus than scapular pushups (which I also like). There are a gazillion videos of these, but I like the older videos that Eric Cressey put out. Just use google.

*FWIW I used a lot of that guy's stuff. I don't agree with all of his methods these days, but I did find usefulness in a lot of it.

Final words: If it hurts worse after doing stuff, and either stays worse or gets worse in general do less or do something different. It it hurts worse after doing stuff, but then shows a trend of getting progressively better, you may be on the right track. Sometimes post-training soreness is okay, as long as it goes away within an hour or two.

ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE. This is just my experience.


I hope it helps.
 
Not a medical advice - I am a coach, not a doc - but when I injured my shoulder couple of months ago (missed spinning back fist in a MMA sparring), the thing that helped me most was a combo of hanging drills and kettlebell bent arm bar.
 
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