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Kettlebell Feet turning out with KB swing

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TimmyCK

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My gf recently took up S&S and she's really enjoying the program so far. I think her swing is quite good except for one issue - on the top of the swing, her feet turn on their sides a bit (her big toe and the ball of the foot lose briefly contact with the ground). Does anyone have a cue or drill that could correct this? I've tried "grip the ground with your toes" but it doesn't seem to help much.

Thanks in advance!

edit: Sorry, worded this incorrectly. The problem is at the bottom of the swing, not the top.
 
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She should focus on driving her feet into the ground with each swing, as if to jump, or pushing the ground away from her.

She also may be driving the bell upwards with her heel, as well.
 
Many many things with the swing (and I think this is one) can be effectively re-patterned with the kettlebell deadlift. The body movement is the same (except the arms) but the movement is as slow as you want.
 
Anna C said:
Many many things with the swing (and I think this is one) can be effectively re-patterned with the kettlebell deadlift. The body movement is the same (except the arms) but the movement is as slow as you want.
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Thanks for the response! Could the deadlift be used as a warmup for S&S in that case to prime proper foot position? If so, what sets/reps would be appropriate?
 
TimmyCK said:
Thanks for the response! Could the deadlift be used as a warmup for S&S in that case to prime proper foot position? If so, what sets/reps would be appropriate?
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Yes, I used to always do 1-3 sets of 5 or so, before swings. It helps me feel if my low back is ready to swing some weight.

Deadlifts are significantly easier than swings, so IMO there's no need to count them in the training load. For example, if I'm 1-H swinging 24kg, then some deadlifts with 24kg are easy warm-up load, and no need to reduce the number of swings. If I wanted to get some actual load with deadlifts, it would be 3-5 sets of 10 with 40kg or more. (In that case it might be "instead of" some of the swings).

Most women can pretty easily deadlift a decent weight kettlebell without much stress.
 
Let uf know if repatterning with the KB deadlift works :)

If it does, then problem solved..

If not, we'll try something else
 
@Anna C @Brett Jones - thank you very much for the suggestions. The deadlifts (3 sets of 5 w/ 24 kg) seemed to help quite a bit, and after the lock and rock test she turned her feet out a tad more than usual (before she'd start with a 15 degree turnout or so). In the video with a 16kg it's definitely better than before but her big toes and balls still float a bit at the bottom.
 
I notice that only my right foot does this. What would cause this, muscle imbalance further up the chain, glutes?
 
A trick that may help: ask her to come up on tip toes at the top of the swing with a light kettlebell. She will get the feel.

Alternatively, leave it alone. Swing is just what it is, swinging an iron ball with a handle.
 
6was9 said:
A trick that may help: ask her to come up on tip toes at the top of the swing with a light kettlebell. She will get the feel.

Alternatively, leave it alone. Swing is just what it is, swinging an iron ball with a handle.
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Is this the same as the triple-extension swing?
 
TimmyCK said:
@Anna C @Brett Jones - thank you very much for the suggestions. The deadlifts (3 sets of 5 w/ 24 kg) seemed to help quite a bit, and after the lock and rock test she turned her feet out a tad more than usual (before she'd start with a 15 degree turnout or so). In the video with a 16kg it's definitely better than before but her big toes and balls still float a bit at the bottom.
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Looks great! Glad it helped.

6was9 said:
A trick that may help: ask her to come up on tip toes at the top of the swing with a light kettlebell. She will get the feel.
Click to expand...

That's not a StrongFirst technique. I've never tried it myself, but it doesn't seem compatible with the objectives of the hardstyle swing.
 
I think if she had a deeper hinge, it would root her foot better. It looks like maybe her knees aren't bending enough on the hike pass.

Does her foot do the same thing with KB deadlifts?
 
Anna C said:
That's not a StrongFirst technique. I've never tried it myself, but it doesn't seem compatible with the objectives of the hardstyle swing.
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It's a cue, just to get the feel.

But as I said, I don't see a problem if the feet "float". It's likely to improve as the weight increases.
 
Ronzi said:
I think if she had a deeper hinge, it would root her foot better. It looks like maybe her knees aren't bending enough on the hike pass.

Does her foot do the same thing with KB deadlifts?
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No, her feet are stable and rooted during DLs (probably why DL drills helped so much). I'll try suggesting a deeper hinge, thank you!
 
6was9 said:
It's a cue, just to get the feel.

But as I said, I don't see a problem if the feet "float". It's likely to improve as the weight increases.
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I feel a bit uneasy about it, given how important foot stability is to overall lifts and performance. I'll give the cue a go though!
 
I have to correct: the balls of the feet rather than tip toes.

Edit. On the other hand, don't do anything you are uneasy about. Follow the advice that sounds more logical to you.
 
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TimmyCK said:
My gf recently took up S&S and she's really enjoying the program so far. I think her swing is quite good except for one issue - on the top of the swing, her feet turn on their sides a bit (her big toe and the ball of the foot lose briefly contact with the ground). Does anyone have a cue or drill that could correct this? I've tried "grip the ground with your toes" but it doesn't seem to help much.

Thanks in advance!

edit: Sorry, worded this incorrectly. The problem is at the bottom of the swing, not the top.
Click to expand...

I think I just recreated your girlfriend's issue. When I keep my hinge shallow, my center of mass during the hike shifts back a little, loading my heels more. Whereas with enough hinge depth my weight distributes more evenly heel to toes.

Might be worth it to experiment with the hinge pattern within a safe range while maintaining foot/knee traction to come up with an optimally grounded footing throughout the movement.
 
TimmyCK said:
@Anna C @Brett Jones - thank you very much for the suggestions. The deadlifts (3 sets of 5 w/ 24 kg) seemed to help quite a bit, and after the lock and rock test she turned her feet out a tad more than usual (before she'd start with a 15 degree turnout or so). In the video with a 16kg it's definitely better than before but her big toes and balls still float a bit at the bottom.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the ball of her foot stays on the ground while the toes come up a little. IMO, that's OK, and also IMO, I would just let her swing as she is - looks safe, let her build up some volume, keep an eye on the toe/ball thing, and conduct little experiments with foot turnout while carefully monitoring that knees still track feet.

-S-
 
Lock and rock (so feet turned out a little more) + 5x3 deadlifts and a wider stance really seem to help. @barrak - I definitely see how a shallow hinge can cause this to happen but that didn't turn out to be the issue this time - she has flexible hamstrings so she can hinge pretty deeply.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!
 
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