Fitness and nutrition "debunk" sources

[North Coast Miller]

I get that, but personally I don’t have the time or the skills to dig through mountains of research, evaluate methodologies, guess at why some things contradict, etc.

Pretty much all I can do reliably is ignore in vitro studies and assume RCTs are probably pretty good.

I find people that do go through those studies and provide wrap ups like MASS do give a great value add.

Granted there are a TON of people that try to masquerade as doing the above, but are just fishing for the next fitness/ nutrition trend. They are pretty easy to spot if you stay on the biohacker trends. Just searching for “seed oils” in their past pieces usually gives you some insight into their credibility or tolerance for proof.

Fitness is even easier to spot a charlatan. Do their program for a while. If it sucks you will know quick.

I guess I'm not interested enough in the latest nutrition speculation/biohacking to dial in. If I have a genuine question that might lead to something I'm willing to act on, I'll look it up. Don't have the bandwidth or need to passively filter other people's flavor of the month. They aren't liable to give me anything better than "eat more whole foods and stay active".

I get that this isn't really in the spirit of the OP, but I have learned to tune out a lot of contemporary "new insights" into age old issues. Too many wind up being nothingburger or (case in point Attia's anti-sugar crusade) turn out to be factually wrong.

 

[silveraw]

I guess I'm not interested enough in the latest nutrition speculation/biohacking to dial in.

Ahh see I’m a recovering biohacker. I have an inordinate amount of BS floating around in my head that needs to be unlearned.

Ironically there isn’t much new. Eat your fruits and veggies and get enough protein. Maybe switch up your veggies every once in a while. Lift and do cardio and get stronger over time.

Pretty much the only new thing in lifting the past 30 years has been that RPE works and solves the problems of %1RM programming.

 

[Hung]

Pretty much the only new thing in lifting the past 30 years has been that RPE works and solves the problems of %1RM programming.

There're also more variation of "form" that lifters use. You know, French low bar squat

 

[silveraw]

There're also more variation of "form" that lifters use. You know, French low bar squat

Oui?

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

French low bar squat

Define This

I have heard of this term. There isn't much on it.

Based on what I found, it appear to be carring the bar extermely low, below the Anterior Deltoid.

If so, in a Sanctioned Powerlifing Meet, the lifter would never be given the "Squat Signal"; it would be a rule infraction.

Doing so, provides better leverate and is a Quazi-Good Morning Squat.

 

[Xcal]

I really like most of Lebe Stark's work. He generally debunks others in a humurous way and tries his best to be respectful (but some influencers ain't deserving of no R-E-S-P-E-C-T). I don't agree with everything he says. I like his mid-way approach to hard and sport styles, but think he is a bit too much closer to sports-style. in his defense (against me), he has a much smaller physique than I do, so the advanced sports styles give him that skill advantage to beat my phsical advantage...now if I were to fully tap into my potentially strong body then he would have no chance to swing his big KB around me but, reality: his consistency beats me anyday!

Dan John, I watch his regular youtube blogs. I have not found any reason to disagree with him sofar. He does not directly debunk people (unless he gets worked up by cross-fitters). he does indirectly debunk by answering questions, so he will tackle the topic but not the people.

Mark Wildman. I love his work. he doesn't debunk anything, but takes us through his work. his work may be directly in opposition to other ideas out there. I have not yet had a reason to disagree with him.

I used to follow Coach Parry (search google/youtube) when I was only focused on running. His team has studied the Comrades marathon (+-70km with 10s of thousands participants was the largest ultra-marathon in the world. I think this is still true). His research (funded by the Marathon) concluded many years ago, and his approach is based on their scientific findings. I run well enough for my needs (max = 21km)

Yes, StrongFirst as a knowledge source goes without saying, but truly it should be said. I've learned more useful things here than anywhere, and it spans the spectrum from facts, knowledge, science, art, application, insight, and dare I say, all the way to downright enlightenment when it comes to training.

+1. This is where I GotoFirst! @Anna C @Steve Freides, @Kenny Croxdale, @Don Fairbanks , gosh, I'm going to upset myself by missing peopel who have really added value to my journey!!! and all those members who share persnal insight, which gives me a credible balance between theorycrafters and individual reality. umm, I don't always understand Kenny's *well created posts* but do my best

Ironically there isn’t much new. Eat your fruits and veggies and get enough protein. Maybe switch up your veggies every once in a while. Lift and do cardio and get stronger over time.

yes. this is still the accurate summary of all my investigations.

 

[offwidth]

I guess I haven’t really had a need to debunk anything…

absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is essentially your own
- Bruce Lee

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Fitness is even easier to spot a charlatan. Do their program for a while. If it sucks you will know quick.

Not Necessarily

One issue with indivudals who try a New Training Method is they tend to modify it. They are under the illusion they can make it better.

What occurs in a situation (modification of the program) like this is they turn it into something completely different that does not eliciting the Training Effect it should have or they wanted.

This often occurs Novice Lifters.

Novice Lifter need to adhear to a well formulate Training Program that with a proven record in obtaining results.

It happens with any lifter, regardless of how long they have been training.

Years of experience provide an individual with some knowledge but doen't necessarily make one a good coach.

The key being a good to great coach is understanding...

Training Concepts

An individual who understand why something work is able to make modification.

These individual know when you can and can't break the rules. With a Strength Training Program, everything in life, there are exception to the rule. Think of the spelling rule of, "I before E, except after C."

Cook and Chef Analogy

This is a great analogy based on "First Principles": "The idea is to break down complicated problems into basic elements and then reassemble them from the ground up."





The cook follows recipes – reasoning by analogy.

The chef invents recipes – reasoning by first principles. Using raw ingredients and remixing them in a new way.

When you approach a problem like a chef, you get a creative solution that most people wouldn’t even dream about.
Are you a cook or a chef?.

Summary

One of the main issues is with individuals is they Lack Training Concept Knowlege and modify a program into something completely different; which ensured failure. Then blame the program; which was their creation.

Cook Lifters and Coaches

These individual don't fully understand why something works. These individual need to follow the "Recipe".

Chef Lifters and Coaches

These individual Understand The Training Concept and are able to effective modify a program or come up with a creative solution. Doing so, may require some experimental time to make it work.

As per Einstein...

"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing".

Take Home Message

1) Being critical of something new is a good thing.

2) Don't write it off, until you have researched it.

3) That research needs to include Paratical Experience; trying it.

4) If the program doesn't work, consider that you may have inputted in incorrectly; meaning you were the reason it failed.

 

[Anna C]

I guess I haven’t really had a need to debunk anything…

absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is essentially your own
- Bruce Lee

Perhaps the definition of wisdom...

 

[Hung]

Define This

I have heard of this term. There isn't much on it.

Based on what I found, it appear to be carring the bar extermely low, below the Anterior Deltoid.

If so, in a Sanctioned Powerlifing Meet, the lifter would never be given the "Squat Signal"; it would be a rule infraction.

Doing so, provides better leverate and is a Quazi-Good Morning Squat.

Extremely low bar position, medium to close stance, doesn't afraid to keep the trunk parallel to the ground, doesn't afraid with lots of knee valgus. Also grind for 5s and said that's RPE 6

 

[bluejeff]

I don't have any other sources to add to the list, just a couple of thoughts.

I get that this isn't really in the spirit of the OP, but I have learned to tune out a lot of contemporary "new insights" into age old issues. Too many wind up being nothingburger or (case in point Attia's anti-sugar crusade) turn out to be factually wrong.

This is the kind of thing I have been on for a while this year. It seems like there are so many new influencers and coaches and whatnot, and they are all trying to be the next big thing. So, it seems like they have to make their thing look really fancy or they have to trash others' methodologies unduly. I don't doubt there are many well-intentioned people out there, but there are a loooooooottttt of BS-ers. There are also a lot of really fit young people giving out advice like it will fix everyone's problems, but they themselves are only like 23. Beware the 20-something "life coach."

Instead, I have found that simplifying everything has been better overall. Less intricate form cues, less intricate programming. Just consistency. All the fit-media folks want you to think you need some specialized thing to make progress. The only special thing most people need to do is be consistent over a long period of time.

Take Home Message

1) Being critical of something new is a good thing.

2) Don't write it off, until you have researched it.

3) That research needs to include Paratical Experience; trying it.

4) If the program doesn't work, consider that you may have inputted in incorrectly; meaning you were the reason it failed.

This. Examination is key.

Lastly, I avoid most any sources that don't use nuance and context. A good source will say things like "this works well, but might not for all people. Some people will need a different approach." The sources that make one-size-fits-all programs and methods make it sound like tibialis raises will cure all your ailments. They ride on the success of clients who it worked for, and brush under the rug the ones who it didn't. So yes, checking out something new might be a good idea, as long as you're willing to examine it with as un-biased an eye as you can.

 

[silveraw]

One issue with indivudals who try a New Training Method is they tend to modify it.

Good point, there is some degree of being honest with yourself required to make that call.

 

[Georgiaoutdoors]

So, it seems like they have to make their thing look really fancy or they have to trash others' methodologies unduly.

The fitness/training industry is a saturated market. A shortcut to get clients/views/likes is to find some way to stand out as “new and improved” - giving tried and trusted methods that have been around for years doesn’t fit with this shortcut. Savy shoppers will be aware of this and sift through their options accordingly.

It seems like there are so many new influencers and coaches and whatnot, and they are all trying to be the next big thing

I have significant disdain for the “influencer” phenomenon in general. To me it smacks too much of get-rich-quick and self-focused narcissism. Beware of those that wanted to be “influencers” because of the accolades and money. Look instead for those who were excited and passionate about an area/topic and became experts in the field and in so doing became what we might call an influencer. Typically these individuals are also motivated by a desire to help others.

The only special thing most people need to do is be consistent over a long period of time.

Unfortunately most people want a quick fix and don’t want to hear the advice of: be consistent, do the daily work, stay with it for a few years, and you’ll get the results you want. Money oriented businesses and individuals are all to happy to give people what they want, even if the quick-fix is not solution at all in the long run.

 

[Hrungnir]

Dan John, I watch his regular youtube blogs. I have not found any reason to disagree with him sofar. He does not directly debunk people (unless he gets worked up by cross-fitters). he does indirectly debunk by answering questions, so he will tackle the topic but not the people.

Dans rants about Murph are hilarious to me. He tries to be so kind but his hatred of Murph is too pure.

 

[AJL]

For me the “debunking” is not as important as setting a path.

Dan John, for example. Wise man, knows his stuff, love his genuinely warm attitude and outlook on life. But I don’t believe his goals are my goals. For someone who wisely said, “You can’t chase two rabbits at the same time,” he often answers questions as if everyone who touches a weight wants to enter Olympic Lifting competitions. His focus and expertise are largely on giving some specifically tailored piece of advice (has he EVER given someone the same training plan twice?) and not on larger fundamentals.

Pavel’s “Every Trainee is a Nail” article is exactly why I come to this community. I believe achieving Simple, working to an 1/2 bodyweight press, etc. are better uses of my focus than licking my finger, putting it in the air, and seeing what random plan I should follow that day.

Not all roads lead to the same place. Pavel’s road leads to a destination I want: to be healthy, strong, pain-free, adaptable, and focused.

I guess my point is that I’d rather not have to debunk anything. I’d rather follow a master who wants to take me to a place I’d like to be.

But this has been a good thread. Some very interesting answers so far!

 

[Pete L]

I like the idea that work is published.
I'm sure this is open to a correction, as in what 'is' published but there's something about a book being a stake in the ground that the YouTube generation seem to miss.

 

[Pete L]

Agree and agree. I used The Ultimate Diet 2.0 to reach 6.1% bodyfat in 2012~13. I started at 238 lbs and bought his book around the 200~210 lb mark. I followed it exactly, ending up 188 lbs and 6.1% bodyfat measured on the Bod Pod. I was 49 yrs old and used no drugs or “fat burners” of any kind.

Yes, he can be unpleasant. I spent a little time on his forum but there were just so many “Lyle Jrs” attacking people and flaming almost every question that I quietly stepped out of the room. That said, I’d not hesitate to buy any of his products because Lyle does know his stuff.

I genuinely don't know how to ask this without sounding rude, sorry.
Where are you now? Has it been sustainable?

 

[WxHerk]

I genuinely don't know how to ask this without sounding rude, sorry.
Where are you now? Has it been sustainable?

Not at all rude and absolutely no offense taken. That’s a perfectly normal question. For me, 6.1% was unsustainable. I managed to keep my bodyfat in the 10~12% range for quite awhile. I’d lost muscle and a good bit of strength. Fat came back on with muscle but nowhere near as much as when I initially started. I just turned 60 and am wearing a bit too much blubber but am rucking and snatching it off.

The short answer is that 6% is not sustainable for me but getting that low has given me an unshakable, lifelong confidence that I can get lean without overly worrying or obsessing.

 

[silveraw]

Where are you now? Has it been sustainable?

I did Lyle's "Rapid Fat Loss" which is just a PSMF diet before my wedding.
Lost 15lbs.
Gained 20lbs in a week.

The problem was I bought my outfit for my wedding during the -15lb phase. and the wedding week was on the 20lb gain back phase.
Things were tight.

And that is when I learned crash diets are pretty awful.
Which to be fair, the first half of his booklet is all about how this is an awful idea and don't do it.

 

[Pete L]

Not at all rude and absolutely no offense taken. That’s a perfectly normal question. For me, 6.1% was unsustainable. I managed to keep my bodyfat in the 10~12% range for quite awhile. I’d lost muscle and a good bit of strength. Fat came back on with muscle but nowhere near as much as when I initially started. I just turned 60 and am wearing a bit too much blubber but am rucking and snatching it off.

The short answer is that 6% is not sustainable for me but getting that low has given me an unshakable, lifelong confidence that I can get lean without overly worrying or obsessing.

Thanks @WxHerk. I appreciate the reply.
My sister is obese and lost loads. Got really trim but then rebounded unfortunately.
I'm at 47 years old and social media keeps reminding me that I'm a bit bigger around the waist now.
Keen to find a way of trimming down. My wife and I have cut back the booze to once a week which feels like a positive first step.