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Nutrition Fructose and fat storage

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Ryan T

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So something has been perplexing me a bit. I've read articles and watched youtube videos on the perils of fructose and fruit consumption if timed incorrectly. Primarily should be used before training and possibly a little in the AM. I also read articles that say fruit is good for fiber and micronutrient intake and don't really reference timing as a factor etc...

You guys can certainly respond with research if you wish but I'm really interested in your experiences. When do you eat your fruit? Did you have good/bad/neutral experiences with in regards to strength gains and body composition. I believe some folks like @Oscar have adopted raw food nutrition, at least in the past and I can't imagine that the fruit that was eaten resulted in excessive fat storage or metabolic damage. Perhaps the benefits of fruit are individual like so many other things in the nutrition world?

Main reason I'm asking, is in the interests of making better food choices, I'm trying to use fruits to satisfy my sweet tooth for desserts and possible some in the AM for breakfast. Example: bowl of cherries instead of M&Ms or cinnamon rolls for dessert and a banana with my eggs and cottage cheese for breakfast this AM. I'm not trying to go paleo/primal or low carb or anything. Just trying to incorporate some additional whole foods.

I understand that weight (and perhaps composition) is primarily a dietary an interplay of both calories in/out and hormonal balance (leptin, insulin, etc...), but still I'd like to know.

Thanks.
 
I think most of the fruit, as in real fruit -not orange juice instead of oranges - is ok.

Some fruit may be too good and energetic that I have to restrict them. Like dates. I love dates and I could easily eat too many of them during a day.

I can believe that some people may have things worse. Give an alcoholic a light beer instead of a long island ice tea and he may still as well go on a binge.

All of the above written by a fat guy. But then again, maybe it carries extra weight - I know I do.
 
I used to eat a lot of fruit, I guess, as you said, to satisfy a sweet tooth in a supposedly "healthy" way. I noticed I wasn't as healthy, and quit doing that pretty quickly. I still eat fruit, but not all fruits are the same- I now buy smaller fruits (TJ's sells smaller oranges and apples, etc. in bags), where most fruits in most stores are way more than a serving. Also, berries are very low fructose and very high nutrition content (even with a tsp of regular sugar or a little Razzmatazz on them!). Ripe bananas are very high in starch and sugars. Analyze fruit the way you would anything else- some are much more nutritious for the calories, some are not. Just like vegetables.... big diff between broccoli and spinach vs. potatoes.

Try dark chocolate (>70% cacao) or adding cinnamon to something to satisfy a sweet tooth. I've found that something quite "unhealthy" like candy, cake or pie can be quite satisfying if you just eat a bite or two and enjoy it fully. Portion control solves a lot of issues! Also, the less sweets you eat, the quicker you lose the sweet tooth!

Supposedly, because of the way fructose has to go through the liver, etc. it leads to metabolic syndrome and fat storage even more than glucose. Worse, it also has a high association with liver disease. I've heard the limit per day should be around 25g of fructose, as that's all the liver can normally handle and still perform other functions. Much of this research applies to high-fructose corn syrup, but same biological process applies to fruit.
 
I avoid it after dinner. I can't tolerate fruit juices any more than I tolerate soda pop. Eating it in fruit form provides you with fiber and slows the rate of absorption.

Mostly I eat it in the AM and on training days I'll have some about 45minutes to an hour before my session - after lunch.
Back when I was into bodybuilding I ate a ton of fruit pre-workout (as well as a ton of every other type of food), and if I had to cancel my workout I'd have trouble sleeping that night.

The hazards of natural sourced fructose are so overblown as to be almost ridiculous. The amount of fruit you'd have to eat to equal even one soda is staggering.
 
For what it's worth, Steve Maxwell told me that fruit making people fat is complete malarkey. It's bound with fiber and other nutrients that make it a healthy package.
 
Fructose is still sugar, not an arctifial one when it comes from real food, but still.
About 10 years ago I ate a lot of fruits... my doc told me my triglycerides were too high, I should eat less fruits. Blood was back to normal in no time when I ate less (and I have lost weight back then). Since then I eat way less fruits and do not buy exotic fruits from overseas and try to eat what the season delivers.
I love dried fruits but I always have to keep an eye on consumption and I do not eat them every day.
Fruit is good - Vegetables are better. :)
 
The amount of fruit you'd have to eat to equal even one soda is staggering.

I grew up with a bunch of kids raiding the impressive garden orchards of Melbourne for whatever the season had to offer - apples, oranges, cherries, plums, cumquats, apricots etc. The amount of fruit we ate was staggering but we couldn't afford soft drink or lollies much. There were no fat kids
 
nobody has ever said "...and before I knew it, I'd eaten the whole bag of apples!"

was that before starting on the doritos or after?

I live in the unhealthiest nation of earth, Scotland. Last year during the busy Edinburgh festival shops had to increase their stock due to the level of tourists hitting the city. Receiving a crate of food, a shopkeeper found a snake slithering away amongst the fruit. Startled, the shopkeeper phoned the police who then called in an expert to help identify it. Turns out, it was a pineapple.

.....so we have this disconnect....many people don't eat fruit and are unhealthy. Be that due to very complex socio-economic reasons and inequalities leading to educational and income inequalities and/or other reasons, yet in the fat burning wellness sphere there is a trend to avoid fruit. And that leads to fear, avoidance and demonizing entire food groups - carbs - and perfectly healthy nutrient rich fruit.
Drives me bananas.
 
Main reason I'm asking, is in the interests of making better food choices, I'm trying to use fruits to satisfy my sweet tooth for desserts and possible some in the AM for breakfast. Example: bowl of cherries instead of M&Ms or cinnamon rolls for dessert and a banana with my eggs and cottage cheese for breakfast this AM. I'm not trying to go paleo/primal or low carb or anything. Just trying to incorporate some additional whole foods.
Replacing candy and sweets with whole fruit (even better: berries) will take you very far. Pound for pound you'll consume less calories, less total sugar, and more nutrients and fiber. Though too much fruit juice defeats the purpose somewhat (it takes several apples to produce a cup of apple juice, for instance), but like someone else said, it's hard to sit and eat a whole bag of apples in one sitting...but the equivalent amount of calories and sugar from a bag of candy is eaten very quickly.
 
I grew up with a bunch of kids raiding the impressive garden orchards of Melbourne for whatever the season had to offer - apples, oranges, cherries, plums, cumquats, apricots etc. The amount of fruit we ate was staggering but we couldn't afford soft drink or lollies much. There were no fat kids

I grew up on a old farm, not still in production but it had older apple trees, pears, sour grapes, cherries and one ancient plum tree. I passed many an hour lounging in fruit trees snacking and reading comic books.

A good friend of mine had some massive black cherry trees in his yard - needed a 20 ft ladder to get to em - used to terrify me to be climbing around at that height with a clean drop below, but those were worth it!
 
As has been pointed out, there is a world of difference between whole fruit and processed sources of fructose, such as fruit juice or sugar sweetened foods and drinks. There is also a significant difference between different types of fruit, like berries vs. bananas. Glycemic index isn't a perfect measure of the metabolic consequences of different foods, but generally low GI food will help you avoid fat storage and an energy crash.

Personally, I notice my energy levels do best when I avoid carbs of all kinds for the first half of the day, and eat more of them with/after dinner. Perhaps consider having raw fruit with lunch and/or after dinner.

I think it's important to run some experiments and keep an open mind. Different people will respond to food differently based on genetics and (more importantly) their own "metabolic history." A healthy young athlete may be able to eat lots of fruit with no issues, whereas a sedentary pre-diabetic will likely store most of the fructose from fruit as visceral fat.

Edit: I should point out that athleticism is no guarantee against metabolic damage, though it does seem to buffer it somewhat. There are plenty of high level athletes who spent all their health to get to their peak, and then started to fall apart. It can happen with everyone from marathon runners to NFL linemen.
 
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didn't answer the question, sent too early
fructose and fat storage:

fructose is metabolized in the liver. It is a very good recovery fuel as it can replenish liver glycogen quicker than glucose. A combo of glucose and fructose in lquid form is the basis of sports drinks.
When liver glycogen is low, fructose is ideal....that is if you want to replenish your glycogen?
With fully stocked liver glycogen, fructose is metabolized into fat and sent forth into the bloodstream. Depending on cellular energy status, when energy is required it is burnt in beta-oxidation, when energy status is low and there is no other metabolic use for the stuff it is stored. Fat is not just an energy substrate, glucose is.
It is entirely possible to eat too much fruit, fry your liver and get fat. It is also entirely possible to eat fruit and be in calorie deficit, thereby truly being a fat burning beast on a high carb diet. It's not impossible of course but try eating your calorie needs only in fruit.....pretty hard I'd think....quite a good strategy then for fat loss, no? More fruit, there's a front opening up, ready for battle in the food wars.
Not wishing to take sides of course, eat fruit with fat and protein and other carbs.

Fruits have varying combinations of carb content, some sucrose, roughly half glucose/half fructose, some more glucose, some more fructose by ratio.
Fructose and other pectins, lectins and infectins in fruit bodies can cause digestive issues aka the squits in medical parlance, in some people. You may need to be in the vicinity of facilities that can deal with that sort of thing should that be so when pigging out on freshly picked unwashed raspberries.
Fructose is considered to be one of the drivers of the obesity epidemic. But this due it being an additive in high energy food products and sports drinks. Knocking back glycogen replenishing fructose whilst in energy excess leads to fat gain, it is argued. It is a double whammy as fructose bypasses the body's ability to monitor calorie intake. This as related to voluminous amounts of fructose bombarding the liver, not eating an apple. Important distinction....fibre. Fruit is good. Eat it.

One of the many flaws in the fat burning beast camp of fruit limitation to prolong the fat burning state of ketosis.......the advice is to only eat berries as they are low in glucose, high in fructose and therefore do not invoke the dreaded insulin spike to take you out of fat burning heaven and thus will pile on the pounds. Yet fructose goes straight to the liver to replenish glycogen. As liver glycogen status has a lot to do with ketone production those low glyceamic fruits also raise blood sugar levels via liver glycogen release and thus interrupt ketogenesis anyway. So tough luck....hey ho....and anyway fat burning and ketosis are not the same thing.
Banana coffee, yum.
Dunno why it hasn't kicked off. Create an energy deficit by only eating three bananas a day with your coffee and be a fat burning machine without the over inflated price of coconut. Bulletproof bananas.

edit: to further answer anecdotal use of fruit....I just eat whenever I want. Sometimes for breakfast....anytime really. No grapefruits, horrible things. My fave is a banana, strawberries, half an apple, or kiwi, or pineapple, whatever, pile of nuts covered in double cream. As you will note I don't care for the law that one should not eat carbs and fats together. Eating fat with fruit is considered a good thing as the fats help with nutrient absorption. Dunno if that is true at all, it just tastes nice! Fried plantain with coriander and salsa is to die for.
There is some chitter chatter about not eating fruit post training as the anti-oxidants in fruit can interfere with the body's own production of anti-oxidants in the post training cellular clean-up operation by the body. No idea. Could be bollox. Can't see how an orange with vitamin C is going to interfere much, given that, er, vitamin C is one of those things necessary for cellular health and anti-oxidant defence. But still, could be the case. And anyway any excess vitamin C, being water soluble, is peed out. So who knows.....just eat and enjoy.
 
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We are getting a little off topic maybe, but when I used to do shift work I would sometimes for a 12 hour shift eat (drink) a 1200 calorie protein shake and a quart of frozen concentrated OJ, but only mixed with 16 ozs water. Then have conventional breakfast and dinner.

Also riding my bike 12 miles + each day and running the dog 2 miles, plus my workouts at the time MA oriented. Body fat negligible.

If you're in calorie deficit or balance, you aren't storing anything extra. Plus, it actually burns calories to convert carbs to fats whereas fats are already...fats. The body only does this (generally) when glycogen and glucose stores are completely topped off. You might not be contributing to your fat burningest potential by eating a lot of fruit, but in an active person you shouldn't be contributing to fat stores either.

I agree with the observations that tolerance for anything is individual, as are training habits. If you don't burn a lot of carbs you don't need to eat many to keep up.
 
You guys can certainly respond with research if you wish but I'm really interested in your experiences. When do you eat your fruit? Did you have good/bad/neutral experiences with in regards to strength gains and body composition. I believe some folks like @Oscar have adopted raw food nutrition, at least in the past and I can't imagine that the fruit that was eaten resulted in excessive fat storage or metabolic damage. Perhaps the benefits of fruit are individual like so many other things in the nutrition world?

Main reason I'm asking, is in the interests of making better food choices, I'm trying to use fruits to satisfy my sweet tooth for desserts and possible some in the AM for breakfast. Example: bowl of cherries instead of M&Ms or cinnamon rolls for dessert and a banana with my eggs and cottage cheese for breakfast this AM. I'm not trying to go paleo/primal or low carb or anything. Just trying to incorporate some additional whole foods.

I´ve eaten 2500-3000 cal of fruit per day for a few years. Nothing wrong happened. Im now eating a more normal diet, but at least 50% of my calories still come from fruit.

I dont think anything bad can happen from eating fruit, in particular in the quantities normal people eat. If in doubt, just eat them before 5 pm and ideally around training time.

If you eat m&ms, ditch the m&m and eat fruit, no doubt about that imo.
 
Found this on lowest fructose fruits. The berries, clementines and grapefruit would be the most appealing to me.

Eat Less Sugar | Happy Sugar Habits | Laura Thomas

Here's a copy/paste of the recommendations.

What are the low fructose fruits?
Starting with the lowest and getting higher, here are some common low fructose fruits:

  • Tomatoes and avocados (yes technically fruits!)
  • Lemons and limes
  • Cantaloupe melon
  • Raspberries, blackberries & strawberries
  • Clementine
  • Kiwi fruit
  • Grapefruit
 
So something has been perplexing me a bit. I've read articles and watched youtube videos on the perils of fructose and fruit consumption if timed incorrectly.

"The poison is in the dose."

High fructose consumption is a problem. However, over consumption usually occurs via juices; which are are composed of fructose and glucose.

It hard to consume too much fructose by consuming high fiber fruit.

Primarily should be used before training and possibly a little in the AM.

Fruit Before Training...


Having fruit before training makes no sense nor does limiting fruit to the morning.

I'd love to hear that rational for this.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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