all posts post new thread

Bodyweight Functional Strength WODS

Walker147

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi guys and girls,

I’m looking for some advice to help combine both of my hobbies (boxing and a bit of functional strength). Neither am I looking to be advanced in just hobbies for keeping fit, lean and healthy.

Now due to family life I struggle for spare time outside of the house, the days I do have I go boxing at my local club mainly pad work, bag and sparring. I’ve avoid circuit days as this is something I can achieve at home,

I’ve seen some CrossFit WODS and I’m after advice whether they would offer any benefit in doing them weekly (once a week each or twice a week potentially)

20 Rounds EMOM of 5 Pull ups, 10 press ups 15 air squats

21-15-9
Deadlifts and burpees

Is it potentially enough volume to increase strength and lean muscle without gaining mass so to speak

Any advice would be appreciated

Thank you
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello @Walker147

First off, welcome here.

I practice boxing as well. Boxing technique and drills aside, as far as physical preparation goes (assuming your goals to enjoy boxing and being fit and healthy), you'll first be well served by doing the basics:
- LSD running or jumping rope. For the latter, something like 1 round of rope, 1 round of smooth shadow is great. Plus, you can do this at home. Biking, rukcing, swimming can also be an option.
- Sprint interval (7-10 repeats): you stop the sprint when power output decreases.
- If short on time, fartlek is great (LSD running and here and there, you perform sprints) Same rule applies for rope: during the rope round, you do some seconds of 'all out'.
You can adjust the daily volume in function of the number of boxing sessions you have.

Strength wise, once again, you can keep things simple, effective and efficient:
5 x 5, twice a week, with a full body session, covering all the movement patterns (push, pull, squat, hinge, core).
For instance: OVH Press / HSPU / OAOLPU / OAP for the push. FSq / Pistol / etc...for the squat.

If you really put intensity in the boxing session, it may be pretty rough...

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
20 Rounds EMOM of 5 Pull ups, 10 press ups 15 air squats

21-15-9
Deadlifts and burpees
These look like "smokers" to me. You might want to listen to a podcast interview with Pavel (JRE or Tim Ferriss) or other Strongfirst leadership folks to familiarize yourself with the SF style of training.

The first one isn't "bad" -- if you are looking to smoke yourself. Now and then it isn't so bad, or if you are limited on time/equipment.

The 21-15-9 deadlift/burpees is just dumb to me for 2 reasons:
1) deadlifting for high reps doesn't really make sense. It is more focused around maximum strength. Things like sets of 3-5 with ample rest are what you'd want to do
2) Burpees are so overdone and kinda junk if you ask me. More of a method for punishing a high school football team than building strength/fitness in a meaningful way. You might also want to look up what the inventor of the Burpee originally intended the exercise to be used for, and the number of reps used in that case.

idea specific to boxing:

ideas for mma (though could also be used for boxing):

Is it potentially enough volume to increase strength and lean muscle without gaining mass so to speak
Mass is added from caloric surplus. To gain mass, you need to eat A LOT. Are you eating a lot?
 

Walker147

Level 1 Valued Member
Hello @Walker147

First off, welcome here.

I practice boxing as well. Boxing technique and drills aside, as far as physical preparation goes (assuming your goals to enjoy boxing and being fit and healthy), you'll first be well served by doing the basics:
- LSD running or jumping rope. For the latter, something like 1 round of rope, 1 round of smooth shadow is great. Plus, you can do this at home. Biking, rukcing, swimming can also be an option.
- Sprint interval (7-10 repeats): you stop the sprint when power output decreases.
- If short on time, fartlek is great (LSD running and here and there, you perform sprints) Same rule applies for rope: during the rope round, you do some seconds of 'all out'.
You can adjust the daily volume in function of the number of boxing sessions you have.

Strength wise, once again, you can keep things simple, effective and efficient:
5 x 5, twice a week, with a full body session, covering all the movement patterns (push, pull, squat, hinge, core).
For instance: OVH Press / HSPU / OAOLPU / OAP for the push. FSq / Pistol / etc...for the squat.

If you really put intensity in the boxing session, it may be pretty rough...

Kind regards,

Pet'
Thank you for your response, 5 x 5 of the basic movements sounds great, my only problem with that is with 2 kids and the wife working 3-4 out 7 evenings I really only have 1-2 spare evenings which I go boxing on. 5 sets of those movements won’t be an issue but pressing and deadlifts I haven’t got enough barbell weifht, potentially weighted 1 legged squats I have. Have you got a more in-depth description of all those exercises please?
 

Walker147

Level 1 Valued Member
These look like "smokers" to me. You might want to listen to a podcast interview with Pavel (JRE or Tim Ferriss) or other Strongfirst leadership folks to familiarize yourself with the SF style of training.

The first one isn't "bad" -- if you are looking to smoke yourself. Now and then it isn't so bad, or if you are limited on time/equipment.

The 21-15-9 deadlift/burpees is just dumb to me for 2 reasons:
1) deadlifting for high reps doesn't really make sense. It is more focused around maximum strength. Things like sets of 3-5 with ample rest are what you'd want to do
2) Burpees are so overdone and kinda junk if you ask me. More of a method for punishing a high school football team than building strength/fitness in a meaningful way. You might also want to look up what the inventor of the Burpee originally intended the exercise to be used for, and the number of reps used in that case.

idea specific to boxing:

ideas for mma (though could also be used for boxing):


Mass is added from caloric surplus. To gain mass, you need to eat A LOT. Are you eating a lot?
Thank you for the response and thank you for the link, great reading
 

Walker147

Level 1 Valued Member
Hello @Walker147

In this case, you can use a daily approach: Easy Strength.
2 sets of 5 for pull, push, squat, and 75-100 swings for the hinge. It lasts no more than 15-20 minutes

Kind regards,

Pet'
Thank you for all the information, from what advice you’ve given I certainly feel I can construct a far more appropriate workout plan and go into sessions with a focus, I do like the 5 x 5 approach twice a week, and adding in swings and slams for the added power benefit on some of the hinge motion exercises

75-100 reps on kettle swings seems a lot but I’ll give it a go

Thank you
 

bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
To elaborate on what @pet' wrote:
The 2x5 easy strength is not a high intensity session. You want to keep the intensity between like 50-75%. It’s meant to be done like 5 days a week so going too heavy on it will eat into your recovery.

The book, Easy Strength, is primarily about how to strength train to enhance your sport, without impacting your recovery.

The other way to do it, as per the book, might fit your needs. Lift heavy, but only do 2-3 sets of 3-ish reps. Only do it like twice a week. By heavy I do mean like 85% or more of your 1RM. The only other “rule” here is to STOP if your lift speed or form deteriorates. I don’t recall the name of the coach in the book, but he was a grappling/bjj/boxing coach who used this with his athletes.

That’s for strength.

For conditioning, the best advice I think I have it to make sure you stop your sessions while you still feel energized. The more wiped out you feel, the harder it will be to recover for other training. I believe the idea is that you want the really intense sessions to only make up like 10-20% of your total training.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello @Walker147

+1 to @bluejeff
ES is not high intensity. To give you how I used it:
- Daily ES
- 3-4x a week trail running with plenty of elevation
- 2 boxing sessions a week (including hard sparring and intervals)

As @bluejeff mentioned, ES left me a lot of energy for my main sports. I like his idea of stopping before being tired. On the long haul, you will progress without even noticing fatigue. Some day, you'll find super easy to go for longer runs. Again, he is perfectly right with 80% - 90% of easy Z1-Z2 and 10-20% of Z5.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Dayz

Level 6 Valued Member
The best thing to do will be to follow an established strength program that uses whatever implements you have. Strongfirst has barbell, kettlebell and bodyweight programs you could use however many days per week you can manage. That takes care of strength and power, and boxing takes care of cardio. Best to avoid CrossFit style "smokers" that blend strength, strength endurance and cardio. The fox that chases two rabbits catches none.

Side note. You can't add lean muscle without adding mass. Because lean muscle weighs something (ie, it's mass). I guess what you mean is you don't want to get fat or look like a bodybuilder? That kind of thing doesn't just happen. Indeed, people try their hardest to look like a bodybuilder and still get nowhere near close. It's also mostly a matter of diet. You can strength train all day every day. Your won't add mass unless you eat accordingly. Body can't make something (muscle) from nothing (no calories).
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
Side note. You can't add lean muscle without adding mass. Because lean muscle weighs something (ie, it's mass). I guess what you mean is you don't want to get fat or look like a bodybuilder? That kind of thing doesn't just happen. Indeed, people try their hardest to look like a bodybuilder and still get nowhere near close. It's also mostly a matter of diet. You can strength train all day every day. Your won't add mass unless you eat accordingly. Body can't make something (muscle) from nothing (no calories).

SouthParkWeightGain4000.jpg
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
20 Rounds EMOM of 5 Pull ups, 10 press ups 15 air squats

21-15-9
Deadlifts and burpees

Is it potentially enough volume to increase strength and lean muscle without gaining mass so to speak

This is what programming for conditioning looks like, as opposed to strength training.

Many WODs are "metcons" = metabolic conditioning

If your goal is to focus on strength, WOD-type programming isn't the right tool for that.

Also, strength is specific, so the next question to ask is:

Strong at what?
 

3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
Hi guys and girls,

I’m looking for some advice to help combine both of my hobbies (boxing and a bit of functional strength). Neither am I looking to be advanced in just hobbies for keeping fit, lean and healthy.

Now due to family life I struggle for spare time outside of the house, the days I do have I go boxing at my local club mainly pad work, bag and sparring. I’ve avoid circuit days as this is something I can achieve at home,

I’ve seen some CrossFit WODS and I’m after advice whether they would offer any benefit in doing them weekly (once a week each or twice a week potentially)

20 Rounds EMOM of 5 Pull ups, 10 press ups 15 air squats

21-15-9
Deadlifts and burpees

Is it potentially enough volume to increase strength and lean muscle without gaining mass so to speak

Any advice would be appreciated

Thank you
Going through the thread and seeing your lack of time, if I were you I'd focus on two Strongfirst principles:

1. Train for strength in the gym and use your sport for conditioning.
2. Train for strength with short, heavy, no-fatigue workouts that leave you fresh for your sport.

Calisthenics is probably your best bet (I'm assuming you don't have kettlebells). I would do the program in Naked Warrior + pull-ups. It'll take 5-10 minutes most days of the week, but you you can do them at home. Focus on tension and keeping yourself fresh. The Strongfirst bodyweight course is a great version of the Naked Warrior workout: it doesn't have quite as much focus on generating pure tension while remaining fresh, but it is a more complete workout, intended for long-term use, and teaches you how to get rid of the tension from your body.
 
Last edited:

Hrungnir

Level 1 Valued Member
In CrossFit you don’t even do burner metcons like those often. If I could just run Diane, Isabella and Grace as programming I would in a heart beat. I love, absolutely love, heavy deadlift and power snatch metcons but they absolutely drain you. They also don’t improve strength as stated above, in modern CrossFit you will almost always do a strength component before your metcon and that is the focus of the days workout, the metcon is typically scaled and a finisher instead of a focus. They also heavily mix in more cardio equipment in rowers, assault bikes and running and rarely are straight strength metcons. Maybe once a week you’ll prioritize a heavy metcon and then have ab and pump work after. The old school CrossFit.com programming is a relic of the past.
 

Walker147

Level 1 Valued Member
Hello @Walker147

In this case, you can use a daily approach: Easy Strength.
2 sets of 5 for pull, push, squat, and 75-100 swings for the hinge. It lasts no more than 15-20 minutes

Kind regards,

Pet'
Perfect! I may attempt this 4 days rather than 5 at first to see recovery and lifestyle flexibility. Should easily leave enough energy as well to get in 2-3 boxing sessions after those or before those workouts, 1-2 home workouts and 1-2 boxing club based workouts.

The kettlebell swings….. is it ok to replace them occasionally with a form of hinge movement with a MB such as slams instead? And what weight are we looking at for the KB swings, very light I’m assuming with the rep range?
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello @Walker147 ,

For the swings, any weight which is doable on a daily basis. The weight do not have to decrease your sport performance. Something between 24 and 32kg should be a sweet spot.

Yes I guess it would work with the slams (even if I have never tried, I admit). As for the weight, something which permits you to do full power without compromising form (because weights are usually fairly light). Sets reps, I'd use something like this: 7-8 sets of 5-10 reps per side).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Walker147

Level 1 Valued Member
Hello @Walker147 ,

For the swings, any weight which is doable on a daily basis. The weight do not have to decrease your sport performance. Something between 24 and 32kg should be a sweet spot.

Yes I guess it would work with the slams (even if I have never tried, I admit). As for the weight, something which permits you to do full power without compromising form (because weights are usually fairly light). Sets reps, I'd use something like this: 7-8 sets of 5-10 reps per side).

Kind regards,

Pet'
Fantastic feedback from yourself and everyone and it’s greatly appreciated.

Someone else mentioned above about a 3 sets by 3 reps but only twice a week vs 2 x 5 ES every day (5 days) have you tried either yourself with great success? 2 days doesn’t seem a great deal for 3 x 3 but am a newbie so you guys and girls know way more than me, 3 x 3-5 times a week no equate to almost the same as 2 x 5, 5 days a week?
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello @Walker147 ,

When we train daily, usually, loads are lighter to allow recovery. When we train less frequently (2-3x a week), we can add intensity (here, weight) or volume during the session. Beyond the pure poundage you lift, you also create neural and neuro-muscular adaptations : you dial your technique, you learn how to generate more tension. This is why the sets / reps are not "enough" by themself.

Here is an example: you can easily perform a set of 100 crunches without any tension. However, if you engage your muscles as if somone was about to throw you a blow, you'll do way less.

3 x 3r, twice a week, mentioned by @bluejeff is will increase your strength to a degree, especially if you are "new" to strength training. Otherwise 3 x 3 will increase your strength way more if performed 3x a week. @bluejeff 's version is perfectly tuned for your needs (maintenance / slight increase, with low time commitment). You can not go wrong with this.

As for myself, I usually get better results from daily practice with lighter weight.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Walker147

Level 1 Valued Member
Going through the thread and seeing your lack of time, if I were you I'd focus on two Strongfirst principles:

1. Train for strength in the gym and use your sport for conditioning.
2. Train for strength with short, heavy, no-fatigue workouts that leave you fresh for your sport.

Calisthenics is probably your best bet (I'm assuming you don't have kettlebells). I would do the program in Naked Warrior + pull-ups. It'll take 5-10 minutes most days of the week, but you you can do them at home. Focus on tension and keeping yourself fresh. The Strongfirst bodyweight course is a great version of the Naked Warrior workout: it doesn't have quite as much focus on generating pure tension while remaining fresh, but it is a more complete workout, intended for long-term use, and teaches you how to get rid of the tension from your body.
Surprise Yourself With Strength on This Bodyweight Training Plan | StrongFirst referring to this? 3 days a week, medium, light, heavy?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ege

Walker147

Level 1 Valued Member
Hello @Walker147 ,

When we train daily, usually, loads are lighter to allow recovery. When we train less frequently (2-3x a week), we can add intensity (here, weight) or volume during the session. Beyond the pure poundage you lift, you also create neural and neuro-muscular adaptations : you dial your technique, you learn how to generate more tension. This is why the sets / reps are not "enough" by themself.

Here is an example: you can easily perform a set of 100 crunches without any tension. However, if you engage your muscles as if somone was about to throw you a blow, you'll do way less.

3 x 3r, twice a week, mentioned by @bluejeff is will increase your strength to a degree, especially if you are "new" to strength training. Otherwise 3 x 3 will increase your strength way more if performed 3x a week. @bluejeff 's version is perfectly tuned for your needs (maintenance / slight increase, with low time commitment). You can not go wrong with this.

As for myself, I usually get better results from daily practice with lighter weight.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Lovely. Best forum on the web by far, great responses and information I’ve been given throughout. I like the idea of both 2 x 5 and 3 x 3 ideas for concentrating on strength and will give each a go for a period of time to see what results I have and what fits best into my time frame around boxing. You still including KB Swings on 3 x 3 id assume
 
Top Bottom