Bodyweight Gama the Wrestler Training?

[Kenny Croxdale]

Michael Yessis' 1x20 program.

Super Squats

Yessis is brilliant.

Performing one set of 20 Squats is a great method of increasing body weight/muscle mass.

Yes, it increases Strength Endurance but does little for increasing Maximum Strength, Power or Speed.

Traditional Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy

High Repetitions are great for increasing muscle mass.

However, it come at the expense of a decrease in Maximum Strength, Power an Speed.

The Platz vs Hatfield is a great example of the difference in training; Strength Endurance vs Maximum Strength. s

The Issue with High Repetition Squats, etc

Aa muscle fatigue set in with each repetition, technique falls a part.

In the final repetition of a set, the focus shift to getting the weight up at any expense.

HIgh Rep Training

It has its place on the Training Table; dependent on the objective and how it is integrated in a Training Program.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Do you think heavy kettlebell training develops more power than sandbag training?

Like most of the time, I guess the answer is "it depends" on the move and weight you use

I think that kb swings / snatches are some kind of "best option" to develop power. I do not know the weight required for the snatch, but for the swing, we can maximize the power output using a bell of roughly 20% of our bdw (so fairly light). In this case, we are not looking for conditioning.

Going heavier is also interesting but may serve other purpose, such as A+A training. Obviously, this kind of training will develop power to a certain extent, but the main goal remains "conditioning".

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[North Coast Miller]

Thank you!

I was also wondering with regards to the maximal strength and perhaps Kenny will be able to answer this.

Can I increase my deadlift without deadlifting? If I bought a sandbag with handles and did low repetitions of high pulls, will that develop strength in powerlifting exercises? I want to build my deadlift from 180KG to 250KG.

You can do shoulder cleans explosively. With a heavier bag you can start with the bag on your thighs in a low squat and explosively drive it airborne to land on your shoulder - these have similar mechanics to trap bar. You can do regular cleans with the handles, or rotational cleans. You can also do Good Mornings with an explosive pop that will get you airborne.

IDK about adding 70 kilos to your deadlift but you can certainly improve your power output using them. When I started with them I was doing sets of 32kg swings for 20-30 and was able to do sets of 6-8 Good Mornings with a 90lb sandbag. Now I can do grind sets of 50+ using a 100lb bag. Haven't tested my swing in a long time.


Sandbags have a functional training limit of what you can actually scrape off the floor and get to your shoulder, which will never be what you can heft in cast iron. In terms of carryover to other activities I feel they do a real good job.

One arm cleans:


Cleans from squat:

 

[User 4484]

Have you done this program?

Can you elaborate what it is about?

I have not - but a lot of people can attest to hindu Pushups and Squats. One of them being the mighty Terence Mitchell Login • Instagram
(RIP Good sir )


If you have’t listened to Matt who wrote combat conditioning, here is a pod episode hosted by @AleksSalkin

The Hammer Cast - Ep. 23: Matt Furey on calisthenics, martial arts, & physical resilience - Podcast Addict

On this episode I had the privilege of interviewing one of the most legendary wrestlers and martial artists of the last 30 years: Matt Furey. To learn more about him, his methodology, and his excellent programs, check him out online: https://www.mattfurey.com/ And if you're not yet on my email...

podcastaddict.com

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Have you done this program?

Can you elaborate what it is about?

Have not done and not certain but from all I've gathered, seeing Furey around the interwebs, it is just programming of Hindu squats, Hindu pushups, and wrestler/neck bridge. This from Amazon blurb for the book:

Combat Conditioning is a system of bodyweight exercises comprised of the three most important exercises for developing the entire body: Hindu squats, Hindu pushups and bridging. When Matt Furey, the author of Combat Conditioning refers to the body, though, he does so in a different manner than most:

"I am not simply referring to the muscles when I talk about the body," says Furey. "I am also talking about the lungs, the heart, the kidneys, the spine and all the internal organs and glands."

When you exercise, think of training everything from the inside out. This means that deep and concentrated breathing plays a major role. Hindu squats lay the foundation for strength and endurance. They build lung power, as well as the thighs, lower back, calves, chest, shoulders and arms. The deep breathing that you do with this exercise, all by itself, will expand the chest and make it larger and more prominent. Additionally, Hindu squats develop balance and coordination.Hindu pushups are the second component of the Combat Conditioning program.

As great and important as Hindu squats and Hindu pushups are, however, the KING of all Combat Conditioning exercises is the back bridge. It exercises the entire body from head to toe. Many people with neck and back pain feel like new after less than a month of training in the Combat Conditioning program. Furey's entire Combat Conditioning program can be done without equipment of any kind. And it can be done virtually anywhere - making gyms, health spas and weight training obsolete. Combat Conditioning is great for the average man or woman who wants to get into kick-butt shape fast - and it's perfect for the combat athlete or martial artist who wants to ramp his skills to the next level.

Personally,I like dive bomber push ups better than Hindu because you get in a lot more work and hit muscle groups from more angles with the dive bombers.

 

[movestrength]

Hello,


Like most of the time, I guess the answer is "it depends" on the move and weight you use

I think that kb swings / snatches are some kind of "best option" to develop power. I do not know the weight required for the snatch, but for the swing, we can maximize the power output using a bell of roughly 20% of our bdw (so fairly light). In this case, we are not looking for conditioning.

Going heavier is also interesting but may serve other purpose, such as A+A training. Obviously, this kind of training will develop power to a certain extent, but the main goal remains "conditioning".

Kind regards,

Pet'

I have studied more of the bear routine and I like the 10 sets of 5 repetitions scheme.

The NYC calisthenics community do high volume of two or three exercises which is somewhat similar to what Pavel describes but with more of a focus on hypertrophy instead of strength.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@LvlUpStr
Hypertrophy may have its place in a macro cycle of training.

Below is a thread in which there are a few leg complexes:

Other/Mixed - Leg complexes?

I was looking at a couple of leg complex workouts like quadzilla and leg blasters where you would string together several exercises into one set. MTI even had a short study which found leg blasters and front squats had similar strength gains. I was curious if anyone could explain the idea...

www.strongfirst.com

Depending on the training goal one may have, high repetition training can also be interesting if we want to get some conditioning at the same time. For instance, for a while, I train with sets fairly close to failure (usually with only 1 or 2 reps in the bank) and very little rest between sets (25s). I performed this kind of sessions 3x a week. I applied this strategy for the push & pull. For the core and the legs, I prefered using harder variations (HLR & pistols), but using an escalating density strategy.

I had good results doing so. Indeed, it gave me some "real world strength" - meaning enough strength regarding my goals - while keeping me always fresh. Back then, this was a good strategy to get a good relative strength ratio, without sacrificing endurance.

There is something which works very well, at least for me: escalating density. You decide a number of minutes, for example 5. Then, during this time, you do as much repetitions as you can, with good form. Rest is up to you. During the next training session, you try to do a higher number of repetitions during the same time frame. You can do this for all the exercises. HR ramps up fairly quick. In general, the good strategy is to keep a steady pace, which makes the whole thing aerobic.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

I have seen a number of short videos and articles where Dan John mentions that younger people should focus on getting as strong as possible i.e. limit strength while "older" people, middle age and beyond, would be better served by shifting more and more towards hypertrophy training. That because of the body's increasing tendency to lose lean muscle as we age.

 

[User 4484]

I have studied more of the bear routine and I like the 10 sets of 5 repetitions scheme.

The NYC calisthenics community do high volume of two or three exercises which is somewhat similar to what Pavel describes but with more of a focus on hypertrophy instead of strength.

If you like high sets of low reps I advise you to check out Tom Furman’s program Armor of war

 

[User 4484]

If you like high sets of low reps I advise you to check out Tom Furman’s program Armor of war

Let me expand a little on the program. It has you working from 5 sets of 5 reps with a certain exercise and when you reach 10 sets of 5 reps you move up. It hits push, pull, squat and hinge. It can be done from 2-4 days per week. Great program that I have had great success with!

 

[movestrength]

Hello,

@LvlUpStr
Hypertrophy may have its place in a macro cycle of training.

Below is a thread in which there are a few leg complexes:

Other/Mixed - Leg complexes?

I was looking at a couple of leg complex workouts like quadzilla and leg blasters where you would string together several exercises into one set. MTI even had a short study which found leg blasters and front squats had similar strength gains. I was curious if anyone could explain the idea...

www.strongfirst.com

Depending on the training goal one may have, high repetition training can also be interesting if we want to get some conditioning at the same time. For instance, for a while, I train with sets fairly close to failure (usually with only 1 or 2 reps in the bank) and very little rest between sets (25s). I performed this kind of sessions 3x a week. I applied this strategy for the push & pull. For the core and the legs, I prefered using harder variations (HLR & pistols), but using an escalating density strategy.

I had good results doing so. Indeed, it gave me some "real world strength" - meaning enough strength regarding my goals - while keeping me always fresh. Back then, this was a good strategy to get a good relative strength ratio, without sacrificing endurance.

There is something which works very well, at least for me: escalating density. You decide a number of minutes, for example 5. Then, during this time, you do as much repetitions as you can, with good form. Rest is up to you. During the next training session, you try to do a higher number of repetitions during the same time frame. You can do this for all the exercises. HR ramps up fairly quick. In general, the good strategy is to keep a steady pace, which makes the whole thing aerobic.

Kind regards,

Pet'

I have finished my back workout today and I did the bear scheme with a weighted vest.

10 x 5 Weighted Pull Ups
5 x 5 Weighted Rear Pull Ups
5 x 5 Weighted Chin Ups
5 x 5 Back Bridges
20 x 25 Hindu Squats

I will finish with calf raises and a few isometric flex hangs on the bar and 100 slow calf raises.

What I noticed

1. I was able to focus on the form and technique more while keeping it as an EMOM workout
2. The workout burned 500 calories and only took 45 minutes while previously, a 60 monute workout burnt 700 to 800 calories
3. My grip and calluses are not peeling away and I didn’t have to wear any tape but my back feels pumped
4. 10 x 5 weighted pull up is more enjoyable than doing 30 x 10 with only BW
5. I kept the squats at a high number because I enjoy the conditioning and endurance aspect of the high repetitions hindu squats

Kind Regards.

 

[movestrength]

Let me expand a little on the program. It has you working from 5 sets of 5 reps with a certain exercise and when you reach 10 sets of 5 reps you move up. It hits push, pull, squat and hinge. It can be done from 2-4 days per week. Great program that I have had great success with!

Thank you, I will study this program and it seems very similar to the bear program.

 

[Xene]

I have not - but a lot of people can attest to hindu Pushups and Squats. One of them being the mighty Terence Mitchell Login • Instagram
(RIP Good sir )


If you have’t listened to Matt who wrote combat conditioning, here is a pod episode hosted by @AleksSalkin

The Hammer Cast - Ep. 23: Matt Furey on calisthenics, martial arts, & physical resilience - Podcast Addict

On this episode I had the privilege of interviewing one of the most legendary wrestlers and martial artists of the last 30 years: Matt Furey. To learn more about him, his methodology, and his excellent programs, check him out online: https://www.mattfurey.com/ And if you're not yet on my email...

podcastaddict.com

Great podcast! Thank you for this link.

 

[Jason B.]

Super Squats

Yessis is brilliant.

Performing one set of 20 Squats is a great method of increasing body weight/muscle mass.

Yes, it increases Strength Endurance but does little for increasing Maximum Strength, Power or Speed.

The 1x20 program isn't like Super Squats at all. You're not fighting to get the reps at all cost. You keep your technique perfect and end the set at technical failure. It reminded me of physio work, tbh.

Traditional Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy

High Repetitions are great for increasing muscle mass.

However, it come at the expense of a decrease in Maximum Strength, Power an Speed.

You can build strength with high reps. This is pretty well established.

The Platz vs Hatfield is a great example of the difference in training; Strength Endurance vs Maximum Strength. s

The Issue with High Repetition Squats, etc

Aa muscle fatigue set in with each repetition, technique falls a part.

You're not describing the 1x20 method. The technique needs to be perfect because it's meant to build strength, not muscle. Yessis claims that by using such light weights you can actually focus on technique better than with heavier weights, which was what I experienced and which seems to be how physiotherapy operates. Like I said, I feel like I cleared up many muscle imbalances and faulty movement patterns by giving every single joint this kind of attention.

In the final repetition of a set, the focus shift to getting the weight up at any expense.

No. No offense, but you are obviously not familiar with the 1x20 program.

HIgh Rep Training

It has its place on the Training Table; dependent on the objective and how it is integrated in a Training Program.

I highly recommend people check it out. It greatly increased my strength and cleared up a lot of problems with my body, increasing my basic athletic capability. It was kind of like a reset to factory settings. However, it is a barbell program because Yessis wants you in the 18-23 rep range. Hit 20 reps, add an amount of weight small enough so your reps don't drop too much then hit 20 reps again.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

The 1x20 program isn't like Super Squats at all. You're not fighting to get the reps at all cost. You keep your technique perfect and end the set at X technical failure.

1 X 20 RM

http://jackedathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1-X-20-METHOD-v1.2.pdf

I stand corrected on Yessis protocol

"Your goal is to perform the designated repetitions of each exercise with perfect form. If your form begins to break down, stop the set and document what weight you used and how many perfect repetitions you completed."

I have noted that in multiple post for Technique Training with competition lifts; once fatigue and technique deteriorates, stop the exercise.

With that said, the issue with this is in regard to...

Overloading The Muscles

Muscle Mass and Strength are increased when at some point you push the muscles near failure or failure in the exercise.

The downside of that is it leads to technique issues.

That mean, if an individual's objective is to increase strength without developing poor technique the keys is perform...

Auxiliary Exercise

These are exercise that are similar in nature to the exercise you want to develop and maintain good technique in.

You can build strength with high reps.

Building Strength

High Repetition increase strength but not to the same degree as Maximum Strength Training does; low repetition, heavy load of 85% of 1 RM.

High Repetition Training

Research, as well as well as anecdotal data, have demonstrated that Hypertrophy Training with high repetition decreases Maximum Strength, Power and Speed.

Effects of light load strength training on strength gains
https://www.patreon.com/posts/light-load-gains-43241897

Conclusions

Strength training with lighter loads causes smaller strength gains than training heavier loads, even when the same amount of muscle growth occurs. These smaller strength gains can be attributed to: [1] smaller increases in the ability to coordinate an exercise with a heavy load (heavier load training involves practicing a lift with a weight that is closer to the weight used in the strength test), [2] smaller increases in voluntary activation (heavier load sets involve much less central nervous system fatigue and therefore stimulate greater increases in the ability to recruit high-threshold motor units after a workout), [3] smaller tendon adaptations (heavier load training involves higher tendon stress, which is likely what stimulates tendons to increase in stiffness), and [4] smaller increases in specific tension due to smaller increases in lateral force transmission (for reasons that are not clear).

using such light weights you can actually focus on technique better than with heavier weights,

Technique In Competition Lifts

Research by individuals like Dr Tom McLaughlin (PhD Biomechanics) has demonstrated that technique is optimally developed with loads of around 80% of 1RM preformed for a single repetition, rather that perform them with lighter load.

Baseball Batting Example

Practicing hitting a 60 mph pitch make you good a hitting a 60 mph pitch.

It doesn't make you good at hitting a 90 mph pitch.

 

[Period]

I would like to make a few small additions to this discussion, if I may.
First of all, the vast majority of people who are known to have successfully trained on extremely high volumes of BWEs are heavyweights. That may sound unimportant at first, but I should point out that heavyweights as a rule have lower relative strength than middle- or lightweights. Therefore, they are usually moving a higher percentage of their max when doing said exercises, and that may in part explain how they are able to achieve fairly impressive strength results on the side.
Second, in regards to Gama, as I have stated elsewhere, Hindu squats and push-ups are by no means simply exercises. In fact, they very closely mimic certain movement patterns from wrestling in the sand pit, especially the shot and sprawl, but there are also other variations that mimic Full Nelson defense etc. Therefore, I would argue that Gama was first and foremost doing a lot of strength-endurance intensive drilling for his wrestling. I should also point out that heavyweight wrestling is a different animal than wrestling in the lower weight classes. A heavyweight wrestler that knows how to throw his weight around quickly and effectively, and doesn't get tired on top of that is a nightmare to deal with, also for someone his own size.
And finally, all the people mentioned have done some supplemental training with added weight. Gama used heavy club-bells, stone rings (Gar Nals) up to 100 lbs for push-ups, squats and running, as well as a number of the customary drills in Indian Wrestling (most likely including rope climbing and bridging, which are staples there). And of course, he wrestled for hours. Herschel Walker writes how he did push-ups with his wife sitting cross-legged on his shoulders, and also did one-arm push-ups and handstand push-ups as well as all kinds of sprinting drills, including dragging a sled/tire. Same for Charlie Bronson, who did push-ups with up to three people on his back, "500 squats with an Iraqui on his shoulders", as well as isometrics, various wheelbarrow drills and handstand push-ups. It stands to reason that if you are a big guy (say, 225 lbs) and can rep out push-ups with even only 110 pounds directly on your shoulders (bringing the load you are using to around 250-275 lbs), you shouldn't have much trouble to bench 300 lbs.
When you compare that to the training of middleweight wrestlers, you will usually find less high-rep stuff and more intense interval training, more varied drilling, often also weight-lifting in various forms (most often including circuits with medium weights) etc. The reason being that light- and middleweights usually have to try to keep their competition weight down. While in heavyweight wrestling, position is key, in the lighter weight classes it is usually tempo, speed and technique that will win the fight. High levels of strength usually come into play especially in parterre, but you will notice how certain wrestlers in international wrestling (especially freestyle) will mostly try to bypass parterre and let their opponents up, just to take them back down.
I would argue that the "traditional" high-volume BWE approach can still work for heavyweights, especially when you add a little bit of more strength-intense work. However, I have yet to meet a middle- or lightweight who was successful with the same approach.

Cheers
Period.

 

[PaulGy]

My experiences, FWIW...

I toyed with the idea of bodyweight training but instead got the KBs back. For my strength workout I did 1 C & P each side with the 32kg on every 2 minutes for 1 hour, 2-3 times a week. Working very hard (I came from a place of not having strength trained for some time so these sessions were hard) I got up to 3 reps (but just as military presses - withoiut a clean before each press as opposed to C & P) both sides on every 2 minutes for an hour.

I decided to drop down to the 24kg for 5 reps both sides on every 2 minutes for a bit of hypertrophy for a week.

Going back to trying to lift the 32kg was humbling. I felt weaker than when I started out with it and had to begin back at singles. I am possibly only going to got for 3 reps each set tomorrow, if I feel strong enough, after 3 weeks. So going lighter for higher reps made me weaker.

Having said that, doubles with 24s got me pressing the 32kg to begin with. It felt so much easier than when I was on the RoP years ago with a 25kg (sic.) bell. I don't think I could do a rep with my left arm back then. I packed-in on a physios advice and went back to singles, this time with the 32kg.

What I plan to do is to just use the 32kg and get stronger so that I am doing hypertrophy rep ranges with it. I am hopeful that taking a 1rm weight to 10 reps will do wonders for my shoulder size.

Going back to bodyweight, however, are hindu squats better for leg strength than swings unless your swings are *very* heavy...?

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Going back to bodyweight, however, are hindu squats better for leg strength than swings unless your swings are *very* heavy...?

My experience is that swings work hamstrings and low back and some glutes while Hindu squats a lot more quad oriented though they both hit all muscles (much like DL's vs squats)

 

[bluejeff]

Going back to bodyweight, however, are hindu squats better for leg strength than swings unless your swings are *very* heavy...?

Hindu squats are more like strength/endurance and joint mobility/health. As outlined in this thread, they won't build a ton of maximal strength on their own. Swings, IMO, are more like a deadlift than a leg exercise. If you are interested in building leg strength/mass with only bodyweight, this thread has some useful replies:

Bodyweight - Can I get by on press-ups and bodyweight squats?

I realise that unfortunately, at the age of 42, I am not going to be a soccer player or other pro-athlete(!) and I am just looking to get strong and go for GPP (okay and a little bit of vanity - but I do NOT want to be bigger but weak, you might as well wear a muscle suit under your clothes...

www.strongfirst.com

 

[pet']

Hello,

High repetitions of full back bridges done explosively are interesting. Paired with a core exercise such as HLR, they are a good 'alternative' to kb swings.

Nowadays I just swing here and there. However, FBB and HLR transfer very well to kb swings, at least up to 40kg

Below a video of the FBB


Kind regards,

Pet'