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Kettlebell Geoff Neupert asks for beta testers for THE GiANT X and KETTLEBELL MAXIMORUM

Hi all. I’m a noob here but have been cross training with kb since 2013 as a trail runner. I am working my shoulders back up from an injury and still a bit light. When I got Geoff’s latest promo for this I signed up. Looking for advice.

1. I’m doing giant x 1.0, 2x12kb since it says 10RM. My 2x16kb is about 9RM for press and I’m not ready yet. So, I just finished week 2. I don’t really know what to log. How do you track your results? I’ve been logging like this:

Sat 3 (week 2 light day)
345 1 min rest 2x12 1 minute extra each rep
6 full sets

2. Am I resting too long? Too short? I have no idea.

3. Can I do other programs while doing giant or is the idea to only do this and only this for 8 weeks? How do you all work other areas while doing this too?

As you can tell I’m not a bodybuilder and don’t know anything so I won’t take any criticism personally — thanks much in advance.
Welcome aboard the Giant bus!

There's multiple ways of double the program. Looks like you're doing fine. I guess one question is this, you say 2 16's are "about" a 9RM? Does that mean you've actually attempted a rep test with them? I see you're rehabbing a bum shoulder so I wouldn't go crazy. I assume 2 12's are beyond a 10 RM??

I'm not Geoff or any other instructor so take this just as an observation of someone who's done the program more than once. I kind of think I'd run the 1.0 with the 12's as a 'break in' then retest with the 16's and see if they are now a 10 RM. I have found that in my case the practicing/training of the movement with lighter weight sometimes adds a rep or so with heavier bells. Not always but it's happened.

The program is designed to be run as is without extras as a full body Minimalistic program so no, I wouldn't add any extras to it. Again, it's just my experience. Focusing on the clean and press will yield some nice overall benefits!

The way you're logging your progress seems fine to me. Don't go crazy adding sets/reps each week as even 1 extra repetition per workout is progress and if you're not feeling it on a particular day, don't worry, just do what you can.

Resting between sets is something I've personally changed my view on recently. I'm older now, just turned 58. If I need more rest, I take it. When I started training with kettlebells I fell into the idea that I had to train with minimal rest between sets and keep the heart rate jacked. I often started subsequent sets not recovered enough to maintain good enough form and suffered some injuries. I'm talking grinds here in particular. In other words, go when you can safely go again. Your heart rate will spike and you'll still get a bit winded even if you wait an extra minute. Again this is just my experience.

Hope you find this helpful.
 
Don't go crazy adding sets/reps each week as even 1 extra repetition per workout is progress and if you're not feeling it on a particular day, don't worry, just do what you can.
As always John Grahill seems to share wisdom exactly when I need it.

This morning I started Week 4 of the Giant X1. The X1 program is my first experience with a program in the Giant family. So I have nothing to compare my progress to. Today was the Medium Day with a rep scheme that was previously a Heavy Day scheme. The two last times I lifted this rep scheme I got 5.1 ladders and 5.2 ladders. (I am doing the full 30 minutes with 2x24k bells.)

Today, my reps and my recovery were good through the 15 minute mark. (I am wearing a heart rate monitor and begin the next set when my HR is 120 bpm.) During the second 15 minutes of my session, my recovery slowed down. I had to push it a little in the last 5 minutes to finish my 5th ladder and get 2/3s of the way through my 6th ladder to equal my last time with this rep scheme. When I say I had to push it, I was starting the next rung of the ladder at 128-130 bpm range. I wasn't gassed or out of breath when I began the rung. I just wasn't at 120 bpm.

Your post today about progress made me feel better. I was kinda of disappointed in my recovery this morning.

Thanks!
 
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Thanks @John Grahill and @blad51! More questions!

I run almost every day so I'm not doing this for cardio, and want to focus on form and building strength (versus tearing my stupid rotator cuff again). Therefore there's no HR req for me. Should I still be trying to do "more" reps in the 30 minutes? This might be a question for @Geoff Neupert instead: In 30 minutes, what is the ideal # of sets of the ladder? A friend told me no less than 1 min rest between sets, ideally 2, but I have no basis for this.

The way you're logging your progress seems fine to me. Don't go crazy adding sets/reps each week as even 1 extra repetition per workout is progress and if you're not feeling it on a particular day, don't worry, just do what you can.

That kind of gets at my question above. If i do a minimum of 1 min rest, then my # of sets will be fixed. Are you suggesting I should reduce my rest time to get more sets in?
 
Week 3 complete. Have to carry over last CP session into this week as only got 3 sessions completed. Snatch sets of 4 up to 32 sets of 4 from 23 sets from last week with same RPE. Had tough week between BJJ, work, family business so I could feel the program hopping gremlins beginnings to whisper….. onwards to week 4..
 
Thanks @John Grahill and @blad51! More questions!

I run almost every day so I'm not doing this for cardio, and want to focus on form and building strength (versus tearing my stupid rotator cuff again). Therefore there's no HR req for me. Should I still be trying to do "more" reps in the 30 minutes? This might be a question for @Geoff Neupert instead: In 30 minutes, what is the ideal # of sets of the ladder? A friend told me no less than 1 min rest between sets, ideally 2, but I have no basis for this.



That kind of gets at my question above. If i do a minimum of 1 min rest, then my # of sets will be fixed. Are you suggesting I should reduce my rest time to get more sets in?
The Giant family of programs are autoregulated. This means you decide when you are ready to go for your next set or next rung. If you are out of breath or your form is suffering, you haven't recovered enough between lifts.

You don't have to use a HRM. I am using my HRM as an objective measure of where my HR peaks in a set and the status of my recovery before I go again.

Read paragraph 5 in the Key Concepts of Giant X: Beta Test, 2022 for Geoff's explanation of autoregulation. (I'm not playing hide the ball here, I'm trying to not give away GN's intellectual property.)

In other programs GN has built in rest periods like you are currently using. For example Strong! is a program where there is a set rest period between sets.
 
Thanks @John Grahill and @blad51! More questions!

I run almost every day so I'm not doing this for cardio, and want to focus on form and building strength (versus tearing my stupid rotator cuff again). Therefore there's no HR req for me. Should I still be trying to do "more" reps in the 30 minutes? This might be a question for @Geoff Neupert instead: In 30 minutes, what is the ideal # of sets of the ladder? A friend told me no less than 1 min rest between sets, ideally 2, but I have no basis for this.



That kind of gets at my question above. If i do a minimum of 1 min rest, then my # of sets will be fixed. Are you suggesting I should reduce my rest time to get more sets in?
Again, Not Geoff here but I think I can answer some of this. There is no ideal number of sets! It's an individual thing. I routinely do fewer than most here have posted for 2 reasons:
1. I'm older and want spot on form and wont rush like I used to.
2. I'm using a true 10 RM and as such I get fatigued.

Don't stress it, just do it as you can. Don't worry about what others have posted doing.
 
You guys are awesome -- thanks so much. So assuming I autoregulate and continue by feel, then I would stop my sets when I'm unable to finish a full set?
 
You guys are awesome -- thanks so much. So assuming I autoregulate and continue by feel, then I would stop my sets when I'm unable to finish a full set?
I agree with Erik W. This is part of the autoregulation aspect of the Giant programs.

If you have selected the right bells for the program and use autoregulation for your recovery, the reps on each rung of the ladder should be challenging but NOT impossible.
 
You guys are awesome -- thanks so much. So assuming I autoregulate and continue by feel, then I would stop my sets when I'm unable to finish a full set?
You should never fail a set. Just set the timer and lift when you know you can hit the full reps. You get the hang of figuring out your recovery with time spent in the program.
 
You should never fail a set. Just set the timer and lift when you know you can hit the full reps. You get the hang of figuring out your recovery with time spent in the program.
I've found pushing recovery times on the light day is a good way of checking in to see where your body is at, and I add anywhere from 30-60 seconds to those times with heavy and medium days. I don't necessarily follow rhe clock or do EMOM, but I like to keep an eye on the time so I don't get distracted and waste time too.
 
When it rains, it pours. Today was not a good day for me. Our son woke up at 5 am, where we usually get up at 6:20 am. Next we found out we had no hot running water, so I had to arrange a plumber. And at work it also was a stressfull day. And then I had the heavy session today. Was afraid I would not do so well after a day like that. But I did the session anyway.
Turns out it went better than expected. It was hard, but in the end I made 4 full ladders, making it in total 7 reps more than the heavy day last week. Sure am happy with that resultm
Nonetheless I'm happy the next session is the light day ;-).

Similar experience. Some times a bad day can be channeled productively through a tough workout. I have had some of my best workouts after a difficult day. Second, the waving of Geoff's programs (from PlanStrong as well) is a MAJOR psychological factor in adherence to these programs. You feel both accomplished when you get the tough day done but relieved an easier day is coming.

Going by steady reps over the course of a week or repeated workouts can feel like a grind after a tough day.
 
Just my 2 cents but I personally think many overthink this stuff. Using a C+P 5RM for front squats certainly isn't "cutting corners" as the double bell FS is a pretty tough exercise in its own right. Holding the bells in the rack position provides quite an abundance of tension in the shoulders and upper back.

I have found that in doing a "Geoff Program " involving clean and presses and front squats using heavier bells for front squats was detrimental. Reason.....the holding of the heavier bells in the rack fir front squats added significantly to my shoulder fatigue which had an effect (or is it 'affect') on my presses. This in particular when you alternate between clean and presses and front squats. Using the same bells in my case still yielded overall gains.

Mileage varies of course.

Right, if you think it is too easy, prove it to yourself by increasing volume, which you can do in autoregulated programs like this, and sets you up for increasing weight you now own when you run the program again. It is only a few weeks.
 
My
Thanks @John Grahill and @blad51! More questions!

I run almost every day so I'm not doing this for cardio, and want to focus on form and building strength (versus tearing my stupid rotator cuff again). Therefore there's no HR req for me. Should I still be trying to do "more" reps in the 30 minutes? This might be a question for @Geoff Neupert instead: In 30 minutes, what is the ideal # of sets of the ladder? A friend told me no less than 1 min rest between sets, ideally 2, but I have no basis for this.



That kind of gets at my question above. If i do a minimum of 1 min rest, then my # of sets will be fixed. Are you suggesting I should reduce my rest time to get more sets in?
My experience with the Giant series is there is no “right rest period”. I normally start each block of the Giant with a good effort but leave a few in the tank the first week. And I’ll build up from there. The first time I ran it I was in the 70 total rep range. Then I saw other guys numbers and thought I wasn’t giving enough and pushed my total reps into the 100s. But I almost blew a gasket. I’d say to solid reps every set and try to challenge yourself. On the heavy days you’ll need more rest between sets, that’s okay rest as much as you need to get solid reps in every set. For me I average anywhere from 1-4 minutes in between.

For reference when I was running 3.0 with double 32kgs I started out getting 20-30 total reps. That was it.
 
My

My experience with the Giant series is there is no “right rest period”. I normally start each block of the Giant with a good effort but leave a few in the tank the first week. And I’ll build up from there. The first time I ran it I was in the 70 total rep range. Then I saw other guys numbers and thought I wasn’t giving enough and pushed my total reps into the 100s. But I almost blew a gasket. I’d say to solid reps every set and try to challenge yourself. On the heavy days you’ll need more rest between sets, that’s okay rest as much as you need to get solid reps in every set. For me I average anywhere from 1-4 minutes in between.

For reference when I was running 3.0 with double 32kgs I started out getting 20-30 total reps. That was it.
I second this. When I started the Giant 1.0 in the summer I did between 60 and 70 reps in 30 minutes. I saw some people do more reps (like the 100s Gypsyplumber mentions) and I started pushing meself. I got burned out and never dit more than the Giant 1.0 After that I started program hopping for afew months.
3 Weeks ago I started The Gaint X1. But this time I take the rest I need. I never start my next set before my breathing has calmed down (I breath through my nose and have a belly breath instead of shallow breathing in my chest) and I can pass the talk test. My total reps are lower than the rushed Giant I did in the summer. Now I'm in the 70 - 80 range, but so far after 3 weeks I feel a lot better.
 
My

My experience with the Giant series is there is no “right rest period”. I normally start each block of the Giant with a good effort but leave a few in the tank the first week. And I’ll build up from there. The first time I ran it I was in the 70 total rep range. Then I saw other guys numbers and thought I wasn’t giving enough and pushed my total reps into the 100s. But I almost blew a gasket. I’d say to solid reps every set and try to challenge yourself. On the heavy days you’ll need more rest between sets, that’s okay rest as much as you need to get solid reps in every set. For me I average anywhere from 1-4 minutes in between.

For reference when I was running 3.0 with double 32kgs I started out getting 20-30 total reps. That was it.

I second this. When I started the Giant 1.0 in the summer I did between 60 and 70 reps in 30 minutes. I saw some people do more reps (like the 100s Gypsyplumber mentions) and I started pushing meself. I got burned out and never dit more than the Giant 1.0 After that I started program hopping for afew months.
3 Weeks ago I started The Gaint X1. But this time I take the rest I need. I never start my next set before my breathing has calmed down (I breath through my nose and have a belly breath instead of shallow breathing in my chest) and I can pass the talk test. My total reps are lower than the rushed Giant I did in the summer. Now I'm in the 70 - 80 range, but so far after 3 weeks I feel a lot better.
I felt the same way. I saw people getting tremendous numbers of reps but quite honestly I didn't care. I was using a true 10RM and the way I'm "wired physically" there's no way I could get 100 reps in a session. Sometimes in a 30 minute session 50 reps was tough. I don't compete with anyone's numbers, I just try to improve from what I previously did.
 
Maximorum week 3 day 2 in the books... Program feels great! I opted for my my 8rep max (20kg) over 4rep (24kg) and it feels like the right decision. Allows me to push a bit towards the end of the workout without sacrificing form AND not feel empty later in the day. 10 sessions in and my body is looking and feeling jacked. Thanks @Geoff Neupert! Great program thus far. Using crossover symmetry to warm-up - shoulder and glute activation. Today's work attached...
 

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Thanks @John Grahill and @blad51! More questions!

I run almost every day so I'm not doing this for cardio, and want to focus on form and building strength (versus tearing my stupid rotator cuff again). Therefore there's no HR req for me. Should I still be trying to do "more" reps in the 30 minutes? This might be a question for @Geoff Neupert instead: In 30 minutes, what is the ideal # of sets of the ladder? A friend told me no less than 1 min rest between sets, ideally 2, but I have no basis for this.

That kind of gets at my question above. If i do a minimum of 1 min rest, then my # of sets will be fixed. Are you suggesting I should reduce my rest time to get more sets in?
@303,

Great question.

There is no "ideal" number of sets /ladders per se. It's dependent upon -
  1. Your training background - strength/power biased vs. strength-endurance biased. The latter will generate more sets in a given time period.
  2. Your ability to generate force and complete the next set.
  3. Your ability to maintain your technique throughout the set.
  4. The specified reps per set - the more reps per set, generally the longer the rest period.
So, if you're focused on form, then you'll definitely want to minimize fatigue as much as possible.

In order to do so, you'll have to rest more between sets, not less.

Does this make sense?
 
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