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Kettlebell Geoff Neupert "THE GIANT" ??

jhpowers said:
(2) Given that this is a hypertrophy program, is there an increase in risk of injury if you are training with a calorie deficit or does it just turn into more of a fat loss program.
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I'm not sure I'd classify it as a hypertrophy program even though hypertrophy can and does occur. It's kind of a "mixed bag of results" program. I used it on my diet I was on in the fall and it worked well, just like phase 3 of Strong! Remember to use good form and the program is pretty good at setting up that "afterburn" effect for fat burning.
 
Mark Limbaga said:
Something to consider too..

If your body does not rapidly increase with pressing, then it is a sign not to rush things..

If you can press 24s for 10 then maybe a better goal to shoot for is to turn 28s into a 6-8rm in the next year?
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Yeah that's the plan for this year. April - 1.1 with 24s, May - 1.2 with 24s, June 2.0 with 24s. July 1.0 or 2.0 with 28s. Assuming I stay the course, I think I'd still have the conditioning to stay with 2.0 when I go up in size. Then just run 2.0 with 28s, until I can get 32s up for 10 reps?
 
jhpowers said:
Two questions: @Geoff Neupert
(1) I've noticed that the top set for both 1.0 and 3.0 starts at 60% of the RM. For example, you do Giant 3.0 with your 5RM and the top set is 3 reps. With Giant 1.0, you use your 10RM and your top set is 60% of that...6 reps. If your RM with your bell is 7 or 8 does it make sense to do something more like a "3.1 or 3.2" where your sets over the week would be the same escalating sequence but your top set might be 4 or 5? I hope that makes sense.

(2) Given that this is a hypertrophy program, is there an increase in risk of injury if you are training with a calorie deficit or does it just turn into more of a fat loss program.
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@jhpowers ,

Answering your questions:

(1) I'd go back to 3.0 and focus on two things: [1] Slow, active negatives and focusing on the cues from Kettlebell STRONG!; [2] Working on decreasing the rest between sets.

(2) The 3.0 is more of a "Maximum Strength" program. The others could be classified as "Hypertrophy/Max Strength" hybrids. If you were going to be in a caloric deficit, I would make sure you're still getting enough sleep, so you're recovering. If your sleep suffers, then yes, you can increase the risk of injury.

Hope that helps.
 
Hi guys,

I'm in my 3th week of Giant 1.1 and just finished my heavy day yesterday (although at this point everyday feels like a heavy day ?).
I've read that some of you take some sort of deload on the 4th week of a cycle. Do you feel like this can be helpful to prepare for the next cycle/program? How would a good deload look like?
I'm planning on following the 1.2 in 2 weeks and I want to start it as strong/fresh as possible to survive/thrive on those even higher reps ?
Thanks in advance!
 
@Dries S my deload has been week 4 doing 20% less than I did in week three. Additionally during this most recent phase of the 1.1 I have also "softened" the density too, just trying to hit the numbers at a more relaxed pace. I find this is very mentally relieving with the heavier bell combo.
 
Dries S said:
Hi guys,

I'm in my 3th week of Giant 1.1 and just finished my heavy day yesterday (although at this point everyday feels like a heavy day ?).
I've read that some of you take some sort of deload on the 4th week of a cycle. Do you feel like this can be helpful to prepare for the next cycle/program? How would a good deload look like?
I'm planning on following the 1.2 in 2 weeks and I want to start it as strong/fresh as possible to survive/thrive on those even higher reps ?
Thanks in advance!
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@Dries S ,

I've written this elsewhere - can't find the thread to point you to it, so here it is again -

2 Options:

#1 -
Week 1: RPE 7
Week 2: RPE 7-7.5
Week 3: RPE 8
Week 4: RPE 9
- Repeat -

#2 -
Week 1: RPE 7
Week 2: RPE 8
Week 3: RPE 9
Week 4: De-load by 20-40% of Week 3's volume or time. (Ex: Volume - 120 reps. De-load = 72-96; Time - 30 minutes. De-load = 18-24 minutes - round down to 15-20 - easier)

Hope that helps.
 
Geoff Neupert said:
@Dries S ,

I've written this elsewhere - can't find the thread to point you to it, so here it is again -

2 Options:

#1 -
Week 1: RPE 7
Week 2: RPE 7-7.5
Week 3: RPE 8
Week 4: RPE 9
- Repeat -

#2 -
Week 1: RPE 7
Week 2: RPE 8
Week 3: RPE 9
Week 4: De-load by 20-40% of Week 3's volume or time. (Ex: Volume - 120 reps. De-load = 72-96; Time - 30 minutes. De-load = 18-24 minutes - round down to 15-20 - easier)

Hope that helps.
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Very clear! Thank you for taking the time to answer!
Awesome program btw! I'm very excited to test my new strength in about 5 weeks after finishing 1.0 , 1.1 and 1.2!
 
Could this be run alongside a barbell program like 531? On a 3 day a week schedule?

Eg
Monday Squat 531/giant
Wednesday Bench 531/giant
Friday Deadlift 531/giant

Or whatever order suits and bench day being on the light day of the giant?
 
Phil Docherty said:
Could this be run alongside a barbell program like 531? On a 3 day a week schedule?

Eg
Monday Squat 531/giant
Wednesday Bench 531/giant
Friday Deadlift 531/giant

Or whatever order suits and bench day being on the light day of the giant?
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If you’re doing 5/3/1 then the explicit recommendation from Jim Wendler is that assistance doesn’t need to be programmed, and certainly doesn’t need to be pushed for PRs which the Giant does.

If you want to do both then alternating the programs would get the best results:
- Do a few cycles of 5/3/1 with some light clean and presses after as assistance (DO NOT PROGRAM THE C&P)
- Do a few cycles of THE GIANT as written. If you still want to squat/bench/DL then I think Geoff has mentioned doing something light for 2x2 or so but nothing near PR territory.
 
Th
SUOMI-PUKU said:
If you’re doing 5/3/1 then the explicit recommendation from Jim Wendler is that assistance doesn’t need to be programmed, and certainly doesn’t need to be pushed for PRs which the Giant does.

If you want to do both then alternating the programs would get the best results:
- Do a few cycles of 5/3/1 with some light clean and presses after as assistance (DO NOT PROGRAM THE C&P)
- Do a few cycles of THE GIANT as written. If you still want to squat/bench/DL then I think Geoff has mentioned doing something light for 2x2 or so but nothing near PR territory.
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Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate it. I'll maybe cycle between them both for a few months at a time ?
 
SUOMI-PUKU said:
If you’re doing 5/3/1 then the explicit recommendation from Jim Wendler is that assistance doesn’t need to be programmed, and certainly doesn’t need to be pushed for PRs which the Giant does.

If you want to do both then alternating the programs would get the best results:
- Do a few cycles of 5/3/1 with some light clean and presses after as assistance (DO NOT PROGRAM THE C&P)
- Do a few cycles of THE GIANT as written. If you still want to squat/bench/DL then I think Geoff has mentioned doing something light for 2x2 or so but nothing near PR territory.
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Yes, we all want to do more, so I agree that the simple solution is just alternative programs over the course of a year rather than dilute your goal for a given month. Geoff would probably be the first to agree that you should run something like the Giant for 12-16 weeks and then do something else with a different movement pattern and then come back to it or Strong or something. Get outside for the summer and then hit Giant in the fall or whatever.
 
guardian7 said:
Yes, we all want to do more, so I agree that the simple solution is just alternative programs over the course of a year rather than dilute your goal for a given month. Geoff would probably be the first to agree that you should run something like the Giant for 12-16 weeks and then do something else with a different movement pattern and then come back to it or Strong or something. Get outside for the summer and then hit Giant in the fall or whatever.
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I agree with @guardian7 . Trying a different style program for a while is a great approach.

On the other hand, I did 2 cycles of the Giant back to back going heavier the second time and it felt like a whole new "adventure" with the heavier bells!

My point is that sometimes even a small change can have a big impact, making your workouts "something new" for a lack of a better term.
 
John Grahill said:
I agree with @guardian7 . Trying a different style program for a while is a great approach.

On the other hand, I did 2 cycles of the Giant back to back going heavier the second time and it felt like a whole new "adventure" with the heavier bells!

My point is that sometimes even a small change can have a big impact, making your workouts "something new" for a lack of a better term.
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I guess there would be many factors such as whether you are still making progress and by how much.
 
Phil Docherty said:
Could this be run alongside a barbell program like 531?
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Should you? Probably not. Could you? Sure - but it as others have implied, it wouldn't really be in the spirit or the intent of the program.

IMO, a key factor is what you are attempting to use each program for. Which will be the supplement to the other, or will the intent to be improvement in both concurrently? This is important because you will need to back off one or the other at some point. If 531 is impeding your ability to recover enough to get through your Giant work, you may need to adjust the 531 program, or vice versa, depending on your intent.

Both camps will likely say that you aren't doing their program correctly (as programs are designed with a specific intent), but you are obviously free to experiment and use them as frameworks for your own training programming.

I'll also add that contrary to the initial offering, there are now tons of 531 options in Wendler's later books that focus on the assistance more than the barbell work, where the barbell essentially provides the strength foundation, and the assistance programming focuses on improving conditioning, work capacity, hypertrophy, etc.

You could use the frameworks of the Giant to add conditioning and work capacity training to your 531 program, but your experience would be your own and any issues, challenges, or benefits couldn't necessarily be attributed to the Giant program.
 
Phil Docherty said:
Could this be run alongside a barbell program like 531? On a 3 day a week schedule?

Eg
Monday Squat 531/giant
Wednesday Bench 531/giant
Friday Deadlift 531/giant

Or whatever order suits and bench day being on the light day of the giant?
Click to expand...
I've done both programs. 2 1/2 years ago I brought my deadlift up from an ugly 455 to a 565 expected max. I just ran the Giant 1.0-1.2 with double 32kg bells. Both programs by themselves were all I could handle aside from swings on the 5/3/1 off days and walking on Giant off days. Granted, I was 55 running 5/3/1 and will be 58 in September but I believe this holds true for any age person trying to maximize his/her performance.

To paraphrase Dave Tate, you'd be trying to ride two horses with one, ahem......"bottom." Might I add, you'd be trying to ride two of the bigger, badder horses out there.
 
5/3/1 is a great program. I ran it for a couple of years and LOVED the heck out of it. People love to make it complicated by worrying about the assistance work. That's like worrying about which single malt scotch you're going to drink after a steak dinner. It's all good. I liked total body, and first set last. That and sets of 3-5 pullups in between sets of everything was all I needed

That being said, I used to feel guilty about ignoring my beautiful kettlebells and wanted to figure out how to incorporate them. The other issue EVERYONE has on 5/3/1 is you get stuck on the military press first.

You CANNOT run the Giant while doing 5/3/1 or vice versa. Geoff recommends 3 x 3 on off days doing legs MAXIMUM


However if you love the clean and press and love 5/3/1 here is an option. For the military press day, skip the barbell and use kettlebell cleans and presses. Take the Giant 1.0 and run that on military day. You'll get assistance work for the deadlifts from the cleans.
Week 1 Do 5 reps
Week 2 Do 5-6
Week 3 Do 6
Week 4 Deload 4 reps.

Monday Deadlift 5/3/1
Tuesday Bench Press 5/3/1
Thursday Squat 5/3/1
Friday or Saturday Clean and Press as inspired by the Giant 1.0

It's neither program, but this is nothing more than a way to incorporate it.
 
@BrianCF is pretty much spot on. To add, and I may be off here, but Geoff's recommdation for the 3x3 or even 2x3 was also for training days .... possibly post training or as a warmup. You will certainly be taxed to a point where your off days will or at least should be off days.

Do one program or another....don't mix them.
 
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