Kettlebell "Giant 1.0"

[kitsu]

Been a long time since running the giant. Coming back to it for my accessory strength. Plan is to run 3 week waves of 3.0-3.2 with 2x36 C+J, to match my barbell waves (Alex's Bromley's Base/Peak Strength). Essential the 9 week plan is this:

W[1,2,3]D1 - Squat - Giant 3.0 [20min,25min,30min]... W[7,8,9]D1 - Squat - Giant 3.2 [20min,25min,30min]
W[1,2,3]D2 - Bench - Giant 3.0 [20min,25min,30min]... W[7,8,9]D2 - Bench- Giant 3.2 [20min,25min,30min]
W[1,2,3]D3 - Deadlift - Giant 3.0 [20min,25min,30min]... W[7,8,9]D3 - Deadlift- Giant 3.2 [20min,25min,30min]

Anyways, I generally like to do EMOM work with the Giant. My question is should my volume be about the same across all 3 days, or should there be more variance between the days? Essentially, I'm debating between:

Total volume (TV) roughly the same across all 3 days: e1mom on light day (1x TV), e2mom on medium days (1x TV), and e3mom on heavy days (1x TV)
or
Total volume (TV) varies across all 3 days: e1mom on light day (1x TV), e1.5mom on medium days (1.25x TV), and e2mom on heavy days (1.5x TV)

 

[Hrungnir]

Hi everyone,
I wonder after performing an RM test.
With 2x16kg I can do 13 nice repetitions, with 2x20kg 8 repetitions with difficulty on the last one.
With what weight to start Giant 1.0?
Or rather do Giant 2.0 with the 16kg before doing Giant 1.0 with the 20kg ?

I would go with the 20s. If you haven’t run a high volume C&P program before you’ll find that you get a lot of very fast adaptation.

 

[Hrungnir]

Been a long time since running the giant. Coming back to it for my accessory strength. Plan is to run 3 week waves of 3.0-3.2 with 2x36 C+J, to match my barbell waves (Alex's Bromley's Base/Peak Strength). Essential the 9 week plan is this:

W[1,2,3]D1 - Squat - Giant 3.0 [20min,25min,30min]... W[7,8,9]D1 - Squat - Giant 3.2 [20min,25min,30min]
W[1,2,3]D2 - Bench - Giant 3.0 [20min,25min,30min]... W[7,8,9]D2 - Bench- Giant 3.2 [20min,25min,30min]
W[1,2,3]D3 - Deadlift - Giant 3.0 [20min,25min,30min]... W[7,8,9]D3 - Deadlift- Giant 3.2 [20min,25min,30min]

Anyways, I generally like to do EMOM work with the Giant. My question is should my volume be about the same across all 3 days, or should there be more variance between the days? Essentially, I'm debating between:

Total volume (TV) roughly the same across all 3 days: e1mom on light day (1x TV), e2mom on medium days (1x TV), and e3mom on heavy days (1x TV)
or
Total volume (TV) varies across all 3 days: e1mom on light day (1x TV), e1.5mom on medium days (1.25x TV), and e2mom on heavy days (1.5x TV)

You’re changing enough to where I would say this is leaving the realm of being The Giant so you can sort of do whatever you want. I’m not saying this as a negative, just an observation. I would post on the kettlebell subreddit; LennytheRebel has done a lot of EMOM work, as well as adding a lot of extra volume, and has a lot of progressions built out.

Personally I think you would benefit from keeping auto regulation and having it naturally wave day to day. Bromley has a lot of volume in his peak phases with his volumizing strategy and without knowing exactly what you’re keeping from his program and what you’re replacing this seems like a brutal program.

 

[kitsu]

I just finished his 12 week "my favorite base phase" for the main lifts, along with Neupert's "Clean 'em up 2.0" from Kettlebell Hard with 2x20. It's not too much if you only do 1 barbell lift along with the kettlebell complexes. If you add anything else, it gets pretty taxing. So now I plan on doing Bromley's 9 week "my favorite peak phase" for the main lifts, along with Giant 3.0 for my accessory. It's honestly not much different from what Jeff recommends in his Bolt On programs.

 

[Hrungnir]

I just finished his 12 week "my favorite base phase" for the main lifts, along with Neupert's "Clean 'em up 2.0" from Kettlebell Hard with 2x20. It's not too much if you only do 1 barbell lift along with the kettlebell complexes. If you add anything else, it gets pretty taxing. So now I plan on doing Bromley's 9 week "my favorite peak phase" for the main lifts, along with Giant 3.0 for my accessory. It's honestly not much different from what Jeff recommends in his Bolt On programs.

No, I agree with you on being able to add just stating that it’s hard for this to still be called Giant. Let’s look at all the proposed changes. You’re switching out C&P for C&J, undulating the time period, switching from auto reg to EMOM with a programmed density increase and adding another program of BSD on top of it.

That’s a brand new program, so it’s not going to play by the same rules and parameters that Giant does because it’s not Giant anymore. Probably will have value and you’re a strong af dude to be running 2x36kg C&J but you’ve left the realm of the Giant behind.

IMO what you’re talking about probably fits Bromley programming better. I haven’t read Peak Strength just Base Strength, but this isn’t that different than how he programs volumizing in his variant/accessory lifts, just with the same lifts 3x week and EMOM. The main difference would be that you would be adding a density component to it as well (which Bromley talks positively about in his videos). So the question would be how does Bromley wave his variant/accessory work for the program and how can you structure your C&J EMOM to fit that parameter?

If you wanted to keep it more similar to Giant, you would have to at least keep the soul of the program, auto regulation, around and not run it as a strict EMOM.

 

[kitsu]

No, I agree with you on being able to add just stating that it’s hard for this to still be called Giant. Let’s look at all the proposed changes. You’re switching out C&P for C&J, undulating the time period, switching from auto reg to EMOM with a programmed density increase and adding another program of BSD on top of it.

That’s a brand new program, so it’s not going to play by the same rules and parameters that Giant does because it’s not Giant anymore. Probably will have value and you’re a strong af dude to be running 2x36kg C&J but you’ve left the realm of the Giant behind.

IMO what you’re talking about probably fits Bromley programming better. I haven’t read Peak Strength just Base Strength, but this isn’t that different than how he programs volumizing in his variant/accessory lifts, just with the same lifts 3x week and EMOM. The main difference would be that you would be adding a density component to it as well (which Bromley talks positively about in his videos). So the question would be how does Bromley wave his variant/accessory work for the program and how can you structure your C&J EMOM to fit that parameter?

If you wanted to keep it more similar to Giant, you would have to at least keep the soul of the program, auto regulation, around and not run it as a strict EMOM.

True, it's not technically the giant, word for word, but it's close enough. I'm using it's rep scheme and timeline variables, but using a jerk instead of press and emom instead of auto reglation. I like to use emoms over auto regulation, because I end up reverting back to my old crossfit days and it becomes an amrap metcon. Emoms force me to take a rest. You are correct though, as I am trying to apply Bromley's volumizing principles to kettlebells. A lot of Neupert's programs follow the same concept, especially in KB Hard. Instead of increasing the weight by 2-4% each wave, he uses the same weights and decreases the rest period or adds more sets. If you refer to some of the premade programs in Base Strength, you'd see that he usually uses 1-2 variants, going from 2-4 sets, and 3-4 accessories, going from 3-5 sets. Like you said, I'm using the 20, 25, and 30 min weeks as my way of volumizing. I am happy that you are familiar with Bromley's work!

With that being said, scratch my program. If I had just asked: Is my goal on the light, medium, heavy days of The Giant to have the same amount of total volume across all 3 days? Ie 30x1=30, 15x2=30, 10x3=30. Or should the light days have less total volume and heavy days have more total volume? Ie 30x1=30, 20x2=40, 15x3=45 I believe the Bromley answer would be to have the same volume across all 3 days, but would like to know the Neupert/StrongFirst answer to LMH total volume variable.

 

[Hrungnir]

With that being said, scratch my program. If I had just asked: Is my goal on the light, medium, heavy days of The Giant to have the same amount of total volume across all 3 days? Ie 30x1=30, 15x2=30, 10x3=30. Or should the light days have less total volume and heavy days have more total volume? Ie 30x1=30, 20x2=40, 15x3=45 I believe the Bromley answer would be to have the same volume across all 3 days, but would like to know the Neupert/StrongFirst answer to LMH total volume variable.

In my experience running the giant, in 1.0, 2.0 and 1.1, my TV goes in order from Lowest Rep Set to Highest Rep Set. At 1.2 it’s pretty even across all three. I experience a pretty steep decline in TV once going over 6 rep sets, usually to the degree of 20-30% compared to 4 and 5. Conversely 4 and 5 I hit very similar numbers on.

I’ll PM you my PRs from three runs so you can see what I’m talking about but for the most part my “light days” have the most volume for most sections of the giant but especially in 1.0

 

[L0ki67]

What have you done before? If you haven't done much in the way of double C+P before, I reckon if you ran 1.0 or 2.0 with the 16kg then just by improving your technique you'll probably find your RM goes up with the 20kg.

If you own the Giant program, there is also a way to bridge between 3.0 and 1.0 by adding reps to 3.0, which is also mentioned in this thread somewhere.

I’ve already done 1.0 with 16kg and 3.0 with 20kg.
I start 2.0 this week with 16kg, never done before so much volume, I’ll see how I adapt.
And after that, I think I’ll do 1.0 with 20kg, if needed with PushPress

 

[Dydo]

And how do you assess this autoregulation? You have to, I think, set some parameters to contend with to begin with. There is no obstacle in the beginning to be EMOM. Or, for example, 1.30 min. Then try every 1.20 min., then 1.10 min., for example. I mean when you feel good every day like that. If you are not well you will increase the time. Obviously, that's the good thing about the program because we know there are days when you're not in shape and it's very frustrating if you have certain numbers coming up and you're obviously not going to make it.
And just something to ask. Under 10 RM, you mean 10 cleans and 10 presses, not just one clean and 10 presses. This also applies to 5 RM.....5 cleans and 5 presses. Tonight I'm thinking of doing a test, but even if it's not accurate, the gym only has KB 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 32 36. For example, if KB20 weighs 10 RM, KB 16 may be very easy for me. What weight should I start with in this case.

 

[Kettlebellguy]

For example, if KB20 weighs 10 RM, KB 16 may be very easy for me. What weight should I start with in this case.

8-10 RM is okay as far as I know. I don’t think you can get more than 12 reps at lets say 16 but get less than 8 with 20s. Even if you get 12 reps with 16 and less than 8 with 20s you can run 3.0 with 20s or run 1.1 and 1.2 with the 16s first then test the 20s.

 

[Kettlebellguy]

Yesterday was the end of my first week with Giant 1.1 with double 20s here are my numbers (20:00 of work)

W1D1: 48 Reps total
W1D2: 48 Reps total
W1D3: 42 Reps total

Happy with my progress next week will be 25:00 of work.


A question: has anyone ran the Giant 2 times a week? I remember reading in one of Geoff’s emails that you can run it two times a week. I am asking because soon I will be having the opportunity to get back to practicing my sport and will be doing that 4 times a week because that is my priority and I used KB to help me with that but I will try to do 2 times a week of KB lifting. Curios to know your results and if it did work for you.

 

[Hrungnir]

And how do you assess this autoregulation? You have to, I think, set some parameters to contend with to begin with. There is no obstacle in the beginning to be EMOM. Or, for example, 1.30 min. Then try every 1.20 min., then 1.10 min., for example. I mean when you feel good every day like that. If you are not well you will increase the time. Obviously, that's the good thing about the program because we know there are days when you're not in shape and it's very frustrating if you have certain numbers coming up and you're obviously not going to make it.

It’s strange to me to make these decisions before even starting the program. No, you don’t need parameters, especially not an EMOM. Just lift and then lift again when you feel good. Don’t overthink it.

And just something to ask. Under 10 RM, you mean 10 cleans and 10 presses, not just one clean and 10 presses. This also applies to 5 RM.....5 cleans and 5 presses. Tonight I'm thinking of doing a test, but even if it's not accurate, the gym only has KB 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 32 36. For example, if KB20 weighs 10 RM, KB 16 may be very easy for me. What weight should I start with in this case.

Yes it’s Clean and Press. Again, don’t overthink it. If 20kg is your 10RM, just run it with 20kg. It doesn’t matter what your RM is with 16, if 20 is your 10RM you will use it.

 

[Dydo]

8-10 RM is okay as far as I know. I don’t think you can get more than 12 reps at lets say 16 but get less than 8 with 20s. Even if you get 12 reps with 16 and less than 8 with 20s you can run 3.0 with 20s or run 1.1 and 1.2 with the 16s first then test the 20s.

Today was test day. My shoulder was a little sore on my right arm, which should be my stronger arm, but I did 11 cleans and a KB20 press with my left. It could have been 12, but it would be in bad shape. With both hands (with alternation) I made a clean and press 1xKB28. Left hand clean and push press 1xKB32 in bad shape. That being the case, I guess my weight for the Giant will be KB20. The KB24 will be too heavy for me, at most I will have to lift it 4-5 times.

 

[Kettlebellguy]

Today was test day. My shoulder was a little sore on my right arm, which should be my stronger arm, but I did 11 cleans and a KB20 press with my left. It could have been 12, but it would be in bad shape. With both hands (with alternation) I made a clean and press 1xKB28. Left hand clean and push press 1xKB32 in bad shape. That being the case, I guess my weight for the Giant will be KB20. The KB24 will be too heavy for me, at most I will have to lift it 4-5 times.

Awesome stuff. Good luck with your Journey!

 

[blad51]

Today was test day. My shoulder was a little sore on my right arm, which should be my stronger arm, but I did 11 cleans and a KB20 press with my left. It could have been 12, but it would be in bad shape. With both hands (with alternation) I made a clean and press 1xKB28. Left hand clean and push press 1xKB32 in bad shape. That being the case, I guess my weight for the Giant will be KB20. The KB24 will be too heavy for me, at most I will have to lift it 4-5 times.

Nice work!

 

[blad51]

End of Giant 1/Week 2.

The 25 minute sets felt really good. I really like this program.

Bring on Week 3!

 

[CoreyW]

I haven’t read this whole thread only the last 5 or so pages. But when did people start increasing the workout time every week? And are you using the 4th week as a deload?

 

[Kettlebellguy]

I haven’t read this whole thread only the last 5 or so pages. But when did people start increasing the workout time every week? And are you using the 4th week as a deload?

Week one is 20:00 week 2 is 25:00 week three is 30:00 week 4 some people do 25:00 but I do 20:00. I find this approach is great because it is almost always guranteed I will do more reps as the weeks go by.
Edit: Yes week 4 is deload that is why I would rather do 20:00 and be ready for the next phase of Giant.

 

[Essexman]

Another four weeks completed, Giant 1.1 done, now starting 1.2.
No body weight change this time, due to having a family holiday (fish and chips and many icecreams) and generally haven't been trying to keep in calorie deficit.
Moving into Giant 1.2 and I'm tempted to try adding more Protein to my diet to see what effect that would have over four weeks.

Quick question: After Giant 1.0, 1.1. 1.2 and 2.0, could I expect to be able to move up a bell size, for example from double 20kgs to double 24kgs and start again with 1.0 ?

 

[John Grahill]

Quick question: After Giant 1.0, 1.1. 1.2 and 2.0, could I expect to be able to move up a bell size, for example from double 20kgs to double 24kgs and start again with 1.0 ?

I think it's reasonable. Do a test after the 1.2 or 2.0 whichever is last and see. I went from 32s to 36s but admittedly my rep max test with 36s after the full Giant series yielded 8 good reps and two ugly ones so they really weren't a true 10RM. The progression with them wasn't as steady and good as it was with the 32s. The heavier you go the more taxing it is.

My goal with the 32s was to do 10 sets of 10 with them with no more than 5 minutes rest between sets. Following the Giant for 4 straight months (2.0 1.0 1.1 1.2) enabled me to do it. I figured the same thing would happen with the 36s. Made some gains but no way could dream of accomplishing 10x1p with them.

I guess I just gave myself another challenge!