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Kettlebell "Giant 1.0"

In the instructions, it is clear that it must be in good form and there is a time limit on it. These factors put limits on it.
In half hour you can go through a lot of volume, even with light kettlebells. Rhabdo is a multifactorial phenomenon, and some proportion of it happens in people with congenital myopathy (there are quite a few of them). These people are more predisposed to muscle damage. Connective tissue also varies from person to person, and some get injured easier than others.

I am in no way doubting the validity of the Giant, but what I am saying essentially is that a sometimes it is useful to adjust a program to your condition.
 
I am in no way doubting the validity of the Giant, but what I am saying essentially is that a sometimes it is useful to adjust a program to your condition.
Not to be combative, but the requirement for proper, controlled form adjusts the program to one’s condition. One will only get his/her 10RM bell overhead so many times in 20~30 minutes using good form.
 
I am in no way doubting the validity of the Giant, but what I am saying essentially is that a sometimes it is useful to adjust a program to your condition.
To an extent, maybe. The reality is that if you need to "adjust" too much, the program may in fact not be for you. So many times people have done changes and substitutions to programs making the program something else.
 
To an extent, maybe. The reality is that if you need to "adjust" too much, the program may in fact not be for you. So many times people have done changes and substitutions to programs making the program something else.
Some real wisdom there, John. I confess that I am strugling with recovery some but I am also doing a lot of walking and my recovery has always been a challenge, especially as I entered my 70’s. The only change I am making now is taking an occasiona extra rest day when needed.

The program is the program. It works when followed. If we change it we lose the option of saying “It doesn’t work”.
 
Some real wisdom there, John. I confess that I am strugling with recovery some but I am also doing a lot of walking and my recovery has always been a challenge, especially as I entered my 70’s. The only change I am making now is taking an occasiona extra rest day when needed.

The program is the program. It works when followed. If we change it we lose the option of saying “It doesn’t work”.

Jim, I may have found a strategy that keeps the spirit of original programs but allows for adjustments, especially for those a bit older. Unlike others, I don't mess with exercise choice, sets or rep schemes. I have used it for a few programs because I get stuck in between as programs for average people are too easy, but I am below the baseline of groups like the Strongfirst forum.

Basically, you keep the same programming, but you repeat some workouts, days, or even weeks. For example, for programs that are linear like power to the people barbell, you add a step or repeat a workout, like the linear step approach to barbells before adding weight. Or you slow it down. A pushup program that calls for adding a rep a day, you may add every second day or whatever. For a program like the giant, you could do it for 6 weeks instead of four before attempting 1.1. A bodyweight program that gets progressively harder, you might repeat the first foundational workout for a week to provide a stronger base before starting the program. I did this with a pushup program. Repeated the standard pushups before moving to diamond pushups, for example. For the Giant 1.1. I couldn't get the 8 reps in for every set last time, so I did half 8s, then 7s and finished with 6s. But this week I did all 8s but my volume went down. I am sure it will be back next week. I just needed the extra workout. That is still progress in line with the program progression almost as written.

Rather than adding exercises (adding front squat to the Giant is a bad idea the lower body workout you get from heavy cleans is deceiving) or even taking some movements away. Repeat or slow the program down but don't change the way the progressions are written. This has been my approach for programs that I think keeps the spirit and intention and progression of the original author while making it a bit easier on my 52 year old bones.
 
The program is the program. It works when followed. If we change it we lose the option of saying “It doesn’t work”.
That is extremely well put in my mind! What's nice about this program is that there is that security/safety mechanism in place....autoregulation. Try to get 1 more set or even rep next week but don't destroy yourself!
When you add this or that, change the order of doing things, skip others, you change the program.
 
What was your workout effort like leading up to those sessions?
This is my log going up to it.

Most sessions were comfortably hard not balls to the wall. Maybe even closer to coasting than pushing.
It's worth noting I do shift work days/nights, 12 hours so my recovery is often compromised.

Leading up to the cola pee incident I had quite a mentally stressful week in work & I covered 48.5 miles walking over 5 days while doing my job.
 

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...you keep the same programming, but you repeat some workouts, days, or even weeks. ...you add a step or repeat a workout, like the linear step approach to barbells before adding weight. Or you slow it down. A pushup program that calls for adding a rep a day, you may add every second day or whatever. For a program like the giant, you could do it for 6 weeks instead of four before attempting 1.1. A bodyweight program that gets progressively harder, you might repeat the first foundational workout for a week to provide a stronger base before starting the program. I did this with a pushup program. Repeated the standard pushups before moving to diamond pushups, for example. For the Giant 1.1. I couldn't get the 8 reps in for every set last time, so I did half 8s, then 7s and finished with 6s. But this week I did all 8s but my volume went down. I am sure it will be back next week. I just needed the extra workout. That is still progress in line with the program progression almost as written.

Rather than adding exercises (adding front squat to the Giant is a bad idea the lower body workout you get from heavy cleans is deceiving) or even taking some movements away. Repeat or slow the program down but don't change the way the progressions are written. This has been my approach for programs that I think keeps the spirit and intention and progression of the original author while making it a bit easier on my 52 year old bones.
Exactly!! I have done and will continue to do the exact same thing you speak of @guardian7 . I consider that spending a bit more time on the plateau before restarting the "climb." Case in point, during 1.0 I was interrupted for 12 days due to moving. Lots of heavy box and tub lifting, eating somewhat poorly, and typical work stressors. When I resumed training I did the 4 rep day for three consecutive sessions, adding a set every session. Similar to your description, I considered that an on ramp back onto the "Training Interstate." Also, back during 2.0 I also did a six week version as I could tell that my snatch strength was still transferring over to my press strength. There are a lot of variables to consider and doing the program but lengthening it is often the best way to ensure you get the most out of it, instead of prematurely advancing and not reaping the full benefits.
 
Some real wisdom there, John. I confess that I am strugling with recovery some but I am also doing a lot of walking and my recovery has always been a challenge, especially as I entered my 70’s. The only change I am making now is taking an occasiona extra rest day when needed.

The program is the program. It works when followed. If we change it we lose the option of saying “It doesn’t work”.
Jim,
I am half of your age (45y.o.?) and I have partially symilar approach.
Program is program - not changing anything;
I do 4 weeks. 3 progressive and the forth deload.
The 4th week I do the numbers from week 1.
After the 4 weeks I do full week off.
I would not repeat workouts to do 6 weeks Giant.
I am exhausted after 3 weeks and deload is important.
If I will not feel strong enough to jump to the next program or weight I am going just to repeat the whole 4 weeks.
If I really need day off I take it. Not too often but I took 3 extra days in 2 months. Twice I was tired and once I just had some beer during the day and decided not to work out after.
I think that many people focus too much on the progress. I train for health and overall fitness so if I will not progress for a week or two I would not worry too much. Maybe I need a bit more time. I am fine with that.
Numbers are great but autoregulation means for me that if my body can not go further I will give it more time.
Just do not use my way as an excuse ?
 
I know that The Giant has suggestions for waving session durations or a 4th easy-ish week . Still, a month long cycle totals 800-1200 reps.

A question to those who went through multiple cycles: Did these measures mainly served to survive the month long cycle, or did they actually help in stringing multiple cycles with minimal cumulative fatigue?
 
@barrak , I apologize but I don't understand your question.
A question to those who went through multiple cycles: Did these measures mainly served to survive the month long cycle, or did they actually help in stringing multiple cycles with minimal cumulative fatigue?
Also, I think I only hit 800 reps for a month like maybe once during my first run through it in the fall.
 
Recovery is something ive always struggled with, more so since using kettlebells, that could just be coincidence since in the same 3yrs my job and life has got a little more stressful.

Im hoping that by using bells slightly lighter than req, say program calls for 5rm ill use 7 or 8rm.
10rm I'll use 12rm and not be in any rush to progress it will help.
 
Recovery is something ive always struggled with, more so since using kettlebells, that could just be coincidence since in the same 3yrs my job and life has got a little more stressful.

Im hoping that by using bells slightly lighter than req, say program calls for 5rm ill use 7 or 8rm.
10rm I'll use 12rm and not be in any rush to progress it will help.
I think that's a great idea/approach. I didn't do that this time around and quite honestly I paid the price! I started with an 8 to 9 RM (9th rep ugly) and truth be told I made solid gains but I'm exhausted!
 
Jim, I may have found a strategy that keeps the spirit of original programs but allows for adjustments, especially for those a bit older. Unlike others, I don't mess with exercise choice, sets or rep schemes. I have used it for a few programs because I get stuck in between as programs for average people are too easy, but I am below the baseline of groups like the Strongfirst forum.

Basically, you keep the same programming, but you repeat some workouts, days, or even weeks. For example, for programs that are linear like power to the people barbell, you add a step or repeat a workout, like the linear step approach to barbells before adding weight. Or you slow it down. A pushup program that calls for adding a rep a day, you may add every second day or whatever. For a program like the giant, you could do it for 6 weeks instead of four before attempting 1.1. A bodyweight program that gets progressively harder, you might repeat the first foundational workout for a week to provide a stronger base before starting the program. I did this with a pushup program. Repeated the standard pushups before moving to diamond pushups, for example. For the Giant 1.1. I couldn't get the 8 reps in for every set last time, so I did half 8s, then 7s and finished with 6s. But this week I did all 8s but my volume went down. I am sure it will be back next week. I just needed the extra workout. That is still progress in line with the program progression almost as written.

Rather than adding exercises (adding front squat to the Giant is a bad idea the lower body workout you get from heavy cleans is deceiving) or even taking some movements away. Repeat or slow the program down but don't change the way the progressions are written. This has been my approach for programs that I think keeps the spirit and intention and progression of the original author while making it a bit easier on my 52 year old bones.
I'm just a garage trainee or as Brooks Kubik from Dinosaur Training fame says, a "garage gorilla" so no formal education in this but I think the method you're describing is the double progressive training method. I like it a lot because it ensures your previous improvement was not a fluke.
 
Jim, I may have found a strategy that keeps the spirit of original programs but allows for adjustments, especially for those a bit older. Unlike others, I don't mess with exercise choice, sets or rep schemes. I have used it for a few programs because I get stuck in between as programs for average people are too easy, but I am below the baseline of groups like the Strongfirst forum.

Basically, you keep the same programming, but you repeat some workouts, days, or even weeks. For example, for programs that are linear like power to the people barbell, you add a step or repeat a workout, like the linear step approach to barbells before adding weight. Or you slow it down. A pushup program that calls for adding a rep a day, you may add every second day or whatever. For a program like the giant, you could do it for 6 weeks instead of four before attempting 1.1. A bodyweight program that gets progressively harder, you might repeat the first foundational workout for a week to provide a stronger base before starting the program. I did this with a pushup program. Repeated the standard pushups before moving to diamond pushups, for example. For the Giant 1.1. I couldn't get the 8 reps in for every set last time, so I did half 8s, then 7s and finished with 6s. But this week I did all 8s but my volume went down. I am sure it will be back next week. I just needed the extra workout. That is still progress in line with the program progression almost as written.

Rather than adding exercises (adding front squat to the Giant is a bad idea the lower body workout you get from heavy cleans is deceiving) or even taking some movements away. Repeat or slow the program down but don't change the way the progressions are written. This has been my approach for programs that I think keeps the spirit and intention and progression of the original author while making it a bit easier on my 52 year old bones.
I really like this approach. It seems a logical approach to deal with the gradual, grinding fatigue that always seems to wear me down.
 
Recovery is something ive always struggled with, more so since using kettlebells, that could just be coincidence since in the same 3yrs my job and life has got a little more stressful.

Im hoping that by using bells slightly lighter than req, say program calls for 5rm ill use 7 or 8rm.
10rm I'll use 12rm and not be in any rush to progress it will help.
I think this is smart, @Gary Wilson.

Just make your RMs "comfortable."

Someone posted the YouTube video of me doing an RM test with a pair of 32s back in November. It wasn't "all out." There was room to spare - another 2 most likely, but it wouldn't have been comfortable. (Or as comfortable as 10 rep of C+Ps can be.)

When you make your RMs "comfortable," you "bake in" margin of error that makes up for, or can make up for the poor recovery that comes from "life happening."

Hope that helps.
 
Does anybody do legs on days off? I’m a skier and alpine climber and I really appreciated how the wolf had the squats built into the program but the giant is different. Does anybody have a squat program they use on off days? I like doing semi-heavy barbell squats where I do 5 of sets of 5 at 10% above body weight then heavy deadlifts, I don’t want to get in my own way though. Will this slow progress with the Giant? I had day 2 yesterday and got an extra set in from day 1!
 
Jim, I may have found a strategy that keeps the spirit of original programs but allows for adjustments, especially for those a bit older. Unlike others, I don't mess with exercise choice, sets or rep schemes. I have used it for a few programs because I get stuck in between as programs for average people are too easy, but I am below the baseline of groups like the Strongfirst forum.

Basically, you keep the same programming, but you repeat some workouts, days, or even weeks. For example, for programs that are linear like power to the people barbell, you add a step or repeat a workout, like the linear step approach to barbells before adding weight. Or you slow it down. A pushup program that calls for adding a rep a day, you may add every second day or whatever. For a program like the giant, you could do it for 6 weeks instead of four before attempting 1.1. A bodyweight program that gets progressively harder, you might repeat the first foundational workout for a week to provide a stronger base before starting the program. I did this with a pushup program. Repeated the standard pushups before moving to diamond pushups, for example. For the Giant 1.1. I couldn't get the 8 reps in for every set last time, so I did half 8s, then 7s and finished with 6s. But this week I did all 8s but my volume went down. I am sure it will be back next week. I just needed the extra workout. That is still progress in line with the program progression almost as written.

Rather than adding exercises (adding front squat to the Giant is a bad idea the lower body workout you get from heavy cleans is deceiving) or even taking some movements away. Repeat or slow the program down but don't change the way the progressions are written. This has been my approach for programs that I think keeps the spirit and intention and progression of the original author while making it a bit easier on my 52 year old bones.
Something like this is my general attitude towards programming. Essentially, you are describing turning a linear progression into a step cycle. Yes?

My version on of this has been to use a "wave cycle" strategy to the Giant programs. On each transition from 1.0 to 1.1 to 1.2 I've backed up a couple of setss but increased the number of sets over time so that the last work outs of a series pass my previous max.

Here is what I've done. I started with my 20kg bells at a 3RM. I did phase 1 of KB Strong. I retested and got 9 reps with the 20kg. I started with Giant 1.0 and maxed at reps in the 60's for each workout during my last week. I backed down two sets and transitioned to 1.1 finishing with my reps in the 70's. I'm doing my third week of 1.2 (after dropping back two sets) now and getting >80 reps in each workout. After this program. I plan to retest with the 24's and then decide where to go from here.

This approach has just "felt right" to me. It seems like it keeps me from overtraining and still feels like it is in keeping with the parameters of the program,
 
The program is the program. It works when followed. If we change it we lose the option of saying “It doesn’t work”.
The Giant is a variation of density progression. Like every program it works most of the time, at least to an extent, for most trainees. When it doesn't you can adjust some parameters so it suits your particular circumstances.

For example. Instead of "as many sets in good form in 20 minutes" you can start with N sets in 20 minutes, then progress to N+1, N+2 etc. That's what I would do if I decided to follow this program, because I know that my shoulders will flare up if I do too much early (yes, with good form). You can wave the weight of the bells inside the workout. You can drag the microcycle. And so on and so forth.

It is still a density progression, still uses the same rep scheme, but some parameters are adjusted for your particular situation. I think you can still safely call it the Giant.
 
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