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Kettlebell "Giant 1.0"

Gypsyplumber

Level 6 Valued Member
Has anyone else had terrible workouts on Easy Day? I was running 1.0 and remember the 4 day being pretty rough. Even with a complete day of rest the day before. Yesterday doing 1.2, on the 7 day, I had absolutely NOTHING. Did 4 sets of 7 and called it a day. I was worried at popping my SI joint (common injury for me) if I did a 5th set. Easily a top 3 WORST workout of the year.

I don't know if it's mental. I ate enough or the time of day. I did it late afternoon and was stiff from work. Or just being 52 being 52.
I’ve never been able to figure out why some days I pick the bells up and they feel like tanks…and other days I grab them and they feel like feathers…some of my worst days are after being well rested too lol.
 

Gypsyplumber

Level 6 Valued Member
Total Tension Complex? I'm probably not the best to answer (I ran TTC once, I ran Giant ~3 mo). They are very different programs. It is almost like comparing a snatch-only A&A style program to ROP.

TTC is great because the volume is sneaky (I got up to 8, so that's like 63 reps, which is about what some of my Giant sessions were); the TTC is "easier" than the Giant because you don't clean before every press, and for me my shoulders felt more "pumped." The TTC is great because it gets squats in, and it also accounts for snatches and swings. I don't like renegade rows (blech). Part of me wants to criticize the lack of pulling (no clean or row ladders), but part of me also says "bro, you were snatching." TTC is a fun generalist program - you got goals, but they're broad. I want to press more, I want to snatch, I want to swing, and I want to squat - boom, program made for you.

Giant, on the other hand, is laser focused. You will clean and press. It is simple. It is auto-regulated. It is - or can be - very punch the clock. It can also be brutally demanding on your hands - LOTS of cleans! Especially when you're dealing with sets of 10. It allows/accomodates for strength-focus (Giant 3.0), hypertrophy focus (I'd say the first two Giant), and conditioning (the sets of 10 - not saying they aren't hypertrophic). It is phasic. You could just keep cycling through it. But with the laser focus is also the reason I only did 3 months of it - I wanted to do other things too. I wanted to squat. I wanted to pull-ups. I wanted to snatch. I wanted I wanted I wanted. I tried to modify it for a 4th month and it was too much. I'm sure someone better at life could've done it better, but my attempt to modify it failed miserably and I moved on. To be fair I think if I had been more modest with my changes/additions it could be made to work (what could go wrong, C&P for 20 min + Snatches for 20 min?!), but my point more here is the comparison - the Giant is not a Kitchen Sink program, the TTC is designed for it. Start monkeying around at your own risk.

So I don't know how well the Giant and the TTC compare to each other. Both will get you better at pressing. Both will develop the mystical quality called "conditioning." Giant is periodized so you could basically keep using it, the TTC is designed as a one-shot program. If you want or like the simplicity of JUST cleaning and pressing and you don't have a handful of "add-ons" then the Giant is fantastic; if you find yourself thinking "hmm... Only clean and press? Maybe I could add..." Then the TTC might be a better option. Other thing - I think the real benefit of the Giant starts to show in month 2 and month 3 (assuming you run the 1 series and or 2.0).

Hope that helps boss. Maybe @Geoff Neupert or @John Grahill (the Giant OG!) could weigh in better, but I didn't want your question to get lost.
Maybe it’s just me but the TTC program had me smoked…more so than the Giant. But I saw great
Results from both but I physically feel better on the Giant. I’ve been mulling around the possibility of running the “moving target” program strong first put out a few years back, but unsure how I should program it.
 

Gypsyplumber

Level 6 Valued Member
3.0 has been a challenge for me for sure, I never thought it would be this tough to break 30 total reps in 30 min. I’m at 28 reps as my highest today (week 3) and I’m hoping to finally break 30 Wednesday. I’m definitely going to take my rest week more serious in a few weeks. Then I hope to test my rep max and see what I’ve gained.
 

SUOMI-PUKU

Level 5 Valued Member
Finished 1.0 with my 16s feeling very strong, my form on the C+P improved/slowed down a lot. From quick momentum-driven presses and dropping back into rack; to a slight pause in rack, a slight pause overhead and an active negative press.

With that, I’m embarking on 2.0 next so I can practice this ‘better’ form into higher rep ranges before I tackle 1.1 and 1.2.

Love the C+P as a movement and definitely don’t feel like I need much more at the moment, especially since adding the pauses and active negative which I feel in the lats a lot more.

Didn’t count any reps or sets throughout and enjoyed how stress-free that made the workouts. I wasn’t worried about rushing to beat last week’s totals (but I think I naturally did) and just focused fully on the talk test and feeling ready for the next set.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
Total Tension Complex? I'm probably not the best to answer (I ran TTC once, I ran Giant ~3 mo). They are very different programs. It is almost like comparing a snatch-only A&A style program to ROP.

TTC is great because the volume is sneaky (I got up to 8, so that's like 63 reps, which is about what some of my Giant sessions were); the TTC is "easier" than the Giant because you don't clean before every press, and for me my shoulders felt more "pumped." The TTC is great because it gets squats in, and it also accounts for snatches and swings. I don't like renegade rows (blech). Part of me wants to criticize the lack of pulling (no clean or row ladders), but part of me also says "bro, you were snatching." TTC is a fun generalist program - you got goals, but they're broad. I want to press more, I want to snatch, I want to swing, and I want to squat - boom, program made for you.

Giant, on the other hand, is laser focused. You will clean and press. It is simple. It is auto-regulated. It is - or can be - very punch the clock. It can also be brutally demanding on your hands - LOTS of cleans! Especially when you're dealing with sets of 10. It allows/accomodates for strength-focus (Giant 3.0), hypertrophy focus (I'd say the first two Giant), and conditioning (the sets of 10 - not saying they aren't hypertrophic). It is phasic. You could just keep cycling through it. But with the laser focus is also the reason I only did 3 months of it - I wanted to do other things too. I wanted to squat. I wanted to pull-ups. I wanted to snatch. I wanted I wanted I wanted. I tried to modify it for a 4th month and it was too much. I'm sure someone better at life could've done it better, but my attempt to modify it failed miserably and I moved on. To be fair I think if I had been more modest with my changes/additions it could be made to work (what could go wrong, C&P for 20 min + Snatches for 20 min?!), but my point more here is the comparison - the Giant is not a Kitchen Sink program, the TTC is designed for it. Start monkeying around at your own risk.

So I don't know how well the Giant and the TTC compare to each other. Both will get you better at pressing. Both will develop the mystical quality called "conditioning." Giant is periodized so you could basically keep using it, the TTC is designed as a one-shot program. If you want or like the simplicity of JUST cleaning and pressing and you don't have a handful of "add-ons" then the Giant is fantastic; if you find yourself thinking "hmm... Only clean and press? Maybe I could add..." Then the TTC might be a better option. Other thing - I think the real benefit of the Giant starts to show in month 2 and month 3 (assuming you run the 1 series and or 2.0).

Hope that helps boss. Maybe @Geoff Neupert or @John Grahill (the Giant OG!) could weigh in better, but I didn't want your question to get lost.
Basically run the Giant and throw TTC into the mix every once in awhile. Where do you think TTC would fit in? After 1.0, 1.1,. 1.2. 2.0 , or 3?
 

John Grahill

Level 7 Valued Member
Basically run the Giant and throw TTC into the mix every once in awhile. Where do you think TTC would fit in? After 1.0, 1.1,. 1.2. 2.0 , or 3?
No expert here but I kind of think adding the extra stuff would be difficult enough in the beginning phases of the Giant. We're all different but adding stuff to the 1.1 and 1.2 would be a little too much for me. This is especially true if you choose a true 10RM to start out.
 

John K

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Basically run the Giant and throw TTC into the mix every once in awhile. Where do you think TTC would fit in? After 1.0, 1.1,. 1.2. 2.0 , or 3?
I actually think it would be a perfect bridge between 3.0 and 1.0. Giant 3.0 uses 5RM, and Giant 1.0 uses a 10RM. Run 3.0 to get your 5RM up to a 6-8RM (which might take a couple cycles), then run TTC for 6 weeks with the same bell, and by then you might be able to squeeze out 8-10 reps with it and be good to use it for 1.0.

4-8 weeks Giant 3.0
Test RM
6 weeks TTC
8-12 weeks Giant 1.0/1.1/1.2
Test RM - with next bell up. If you get 4-5 reps, do 3.0 next. If you get 6-8 reps, use TTC next.

That's what I'd do, but I haven't done it.
 

mvikred

Level 5 Valued Member
With all humility I would say that don't add another program to GIANT. You can maybe use a lighter weight and run a few complexes as warm up but nothing more. You might not feel it in a week, but if you are at it with two programs, your body will feel it a few weeks down the line. Sharing it based on my own experience .. caveat being that your recovery might be super amazing (or better than a 38 yr old avg athletic male) and therefore could be ok running two demanding programs.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
No expert here but I kind of think adding the extra stuff would be difficult enough in the beginning phases of the Giant. We're all different but adding stuff to the 1.1 and 1.2 would be a little too much for me. This is especially true if you choose a true 10RM to start out.
Sorry. I meant throwing TTC into the mix after the Giant or insert after one of the Phases. Not try and run both together at the same time
 

BrianCF

Level 7 Valued Member
I actually think it would be a perfect bridge between 3.0 and 1.0. Giant 3.0 uses 5RM, and Giant 1.0 uses a 10RM. Run 3.0 to get your 5RM up to a 6-8RM (which might take a couple cycles), then run TTC for 6 weeks with the same bell, and by then you might be able to squeeze out 8-10 reps with it and be good to use it for 1.0.

4-8 weeks Giant 3.0
Test RM
6 weeks TTC
8-12 weeks Giant 1.0/1.1/1.2
Test RM - with next bell up. If you get 4-5 reps, do 3.0 next. If you get 6-8 reps, use TTC next.

That's what I'd do, but I haven't done it.
I like this idea. You probably will get better with the Giant because there are more strict presses than just clean and press.
Though I think it's safe to run 1.0 with an 8 RM.
Another suggestion, if you really want to squat is.
Do Giant as written for 20 minutes. Rest, do 5 x 5 alternating front squats and double rows. Done in 45 minutes.
 

bris78

Level 4 Valued Member
Inhale before hike pass.

Snap hips and exhale.

Inhale while bells are in the rack.

Exhale through sticking point of press finishing in lockout.

Inhale at lockout and then pull bells down into the rack while exhaling through active negative.

Inhale for hike pass/backswing while in rack.

Backswing and repeat.

Hope that helps.
Thanks for this @Geoff Neupert thats really helpful!
 

Geoff Neupert

Level 7 Valued Member
Beast Tamer
I’ve never been able to figure out why some days I pick the bells up and they feel like tanks…and other days I grab them and they feel like feathers…some of my worst days are after being well rested too lol.
Stress and its impact on your physiological "state."

This is why autoregulation is so critical for so many of us.

I'll always remember the story my coach Alfonso told me about the monkey and the scientist:

The scientist holds the clipboard with the programming and tells the monkey what to do. More often than not, the monkey obeys.

Some days, the scientist looks at the clipboard, tells the monkey what to do, and the monkey gives him the finger.

Other days, the scientist has very little if anything written on the clipboard and the monkey is going wild, full of energy.

The scientist is "the science" or how things are supposed to work.

The clipboard is the program that you're "supposed to do."

And the monkey is your subconscious, which is impacted by your environment.

Another way to look at this is the following:

Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 8.53.24 PM.png

Hope this helps.
 
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John Grahill

Level 7 Valued Member
The autoregulation aspect becomes more important for me when progressing in weight.

When I started the Giant last year with a 10 RM I was able to make appreciable weekly gains. After 4 months of this I used my newer heavier 10 RM which felt the same as my original 10 RM from four months prior. Git great results but the heavier combo rocked me harder even though it was a 10 RM. I didn't worry, I just autoregulated and made slower progress but progress nonetheless.
 

Gypsyplumber

Level 6 Valued Member
Trying to think of where to go after I finish my current run of the Giant. I was thinking of trying to make my own program. I’d like to start snatching again with a little more regularity. I was thinking of

Monday heavy swings, push ups, goblet squats

Wed snatches and pull ups

Friday ABC complex

Sat freestyle/mobility/stretching possibly more snatches.

Looking to add some variety back but also try and bring my snatch weight closer to my pressing weight, honestly I’m interested to see if my snatching has improved due to the Giant. I haven’t tested it at all since running the Giant.
 

barrak

Level 6 Valued Member
Stress and its impact on your physiological "state."

This is why autoregulation is so critical for so many of us.

I'll always remember the story my coach Alfonso told me about the monkey and the scientist:

The scientist holds the clipboard with the programming and tells the monkey what to do. More often than not, the monkey obeys.

Some days, the scientist looks at the clipboard, tells the monkey what to do, and the monkey gives him the finger.

Other days, the scientist has very little if anything written on the clipboard and the monkey is going wild, full of energy.

The scientist is "the science" or how things are supposed to work.

The clipboard is the program that you're "supposed to do."

And the monkey is your subconscious, which is impacted by your environment.

Another way to look at this is the following:

View attachment 15516

Hope this helps.
My "Monkey" resides in my smartwatch which I keep on 24/7. Its body battery readings nail me every time I short-change my sleep times or go multiple days with high intensity workouts or a bad diet.

Must have for those who are lousy at autoregulation on a macro level, not just during sessions.
 
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