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Kettlebell Going over 100 swings

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Colby

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Any issue with doing more then 10x10 swings. I’m considering doing anywhere from 10-20 sets of 10 reps maximally explosive swings with maximal recovery. Any issues doing that over just the 100 swings in simple and sinister? Using this as a swings only protocol a couple times a week.
 
As long as your swings/technique stay on point and you are able to sufficiently recover, you should have no issues.
 
Any issue with doing more then 10x10 swings. I’m considering doing anywhere from 10-20 sets of 10 reps maximally explosive swings with maximal recovery. Any issues doing that over just the 100 swings in simple and sinister? Using this as a swings only protocol a couple times a week.

You didn't say in the context of what else you would be doing, so it's hard to say. 10 x 10 is a good daily, moderate load. If you're doing more of a H,L,M type week, then sure, 100-300 total swings in a session is reasonable, but probably with a recovery day after.

Like @Bunn said it all comes down to recovery... But also, are you stimulating the desired adaptation? In other words, are you getting better/stronger/more enduring etc., according to your goals, as you train this way? Try it and see...
 


Steve, in simple and sinister Pavel makes the point that going from 100 to 200 swings does not yield double the results. He also points in “the quick and the dead” that 100 maximally explosive repetitions is the most one can do before training “something else”. But in another article Pavel writes that 100-200 hardstyle Swings is all one needs for general conditions. Would you mind clarifying this?
 
1. Q&D's focus is on maximally explosive. S&S' focus is on explosive but - S&S practitioners, feel free to differ with me - keeping the volume control at 8 out of 10.

2. S&S is for "general conditioning" - Q&D is for a specific target, mitochondrial health.

3. S&S is designed to be done forever, Q&D is not.

4. It's not about 100 or 200 swings only - each is part of the design of a program, hence the article I linked to that varies the daily volume of swings between, if memory serves, 60 and 200.

We're discussing two popular minimalist programs by someone I consider the world's leading developer of minimalist programs. I don't think you, @Colby, or me, or most other folks are ever going to fully understand everything that went into the design of either program.

-S-
 
Very good question @Colby
From observarion, I think 100 is the upper limit for power focused training (minimizing power production and the hormonal benefits of it). For a focus on endurance, sessions can go way beyond that. A+A seems to be 100-200 or even 300. And Megan Kelly follows a plan (probably experimental) by Pavel and has recently clocked 600 reps in a single session with a 32kg. (4 reps every 30 secs for 75 minutes).

Megan Kelly on Instagram: “36kg swings x 4 every 30 seconds for 75 minutes, here’s the last 2 sets at minute 75. Difficulty 6.5-7/10. I need to start bringing my…”
 
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1. Q&D's focus is on maximally explosive. S&S' focus is on explosive but - S&S practitioners, feel free to differ with me - keeping the volume control at 8 out of 10.

2. S&S is for "general conditioning" - Q&D is for a specific target, mitochondrial health.

3. S&S is designed to be done forever, Q&D is not.

4. It's not about 100 or 200 swings only - each is part of the design of a program, hence the article I linked to that varies the daily volume of swings between, if memory serves, 60 and 200.

We're discussing two popular minimalist programs by someone I consider the world's leading developer of minimalist programs. I don't think you, @Colby, or me, or most other folks are ever going to fully understand everything that went into the design of either program.

-S-
Steve,

I think you misunderstood my question. I was asking if you could clarify waving the swings. As in are there benefits to going above 100 hardstyle swings (maximal explosive) or is “diminish returns once you past 100 reps?
 
I'm not @Steve Freides but...
Steve, in simple and sinister Pavel makes the point that going from 100 to 200 swings does not yield double the results.

This is probably in the context of daily training. A+A as well as the wavy program to progress to Sinister have more than 100 swings and give good results. But it's not done daily.

He also points in “the quick and the dead” that 100 maximally explosive repetitions is the most one can do before training “something else”.

Q&D focuses on power, so "Somerhing else" means something different than power. Power is not the only capacity we need, so training something other than power is good.

But in another article Pavel writes that 100-200 hardstyle Swings is all one needs for general conditions. Would you mind clarifying this?

Feel free to try up to 20x10. You could also try 30x5 or anything in between. It gives good results, just reduce frequency to 3/4 times per week
 
Let's all agree with Pavel and say that 100 in a day, if your goal is maximal explosiveness, is a good place to stop. No doubt one could tweak the parameters and remain explosive for higher reps by adding longer rest periods, but some protocols could on the length of the rest period being performed as specified in order to achieve their desired and predicted result.

@Colby, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but hard style does not always mean maximally explosive, and I'm feeling like you're trying to make a complex issue simpler than, in my mind, it is. That's why I'm hesitant to answer your question as you asked it.

-S-
 
I'm not @Steve Freides but...

This is probably in the context of daily training. A+A as well as the wavy program to progress to Sinister have more than 100 swings and give good results. But it's not done daily.



Q&D focuses on power, so "Somerhing else" means something different than power. Power is not the only capacity we need, so training something other than power is good.



Feel free to try up to 20x10. You could also try 30x5 or anything in between. It gives good results, just reduce frequency to 3/4 times per week

The reason I ask is because I am only training 3-4 times a week with only Swings. Some days I feel that 100 swings is enough but some days 150 (more off less) . My goal is not to over train. Are there benefits for Keeping the power at 100 percent past 100 reps with sufficient rest between sets?
 
Let's all agree with Pavel and say that 100 in a day, if your goal is maximal explosiveness, is a good place to stop. No doubt one could tweak the parameters and remain explosive for higher reps by adding longer rest periods, but some protocols could on the length of the rest period being performed as specified in order to achieve their desired and predicted result.

@Colby, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but hard style does not always mean maximally explosive, and I'm feeling like you're trying to make a complex issue simpler than, in my mind, it is. That's why I'm hesitant to answer your question as you asked it.

-S-

Steve I understand where you are coming from and with the knowledge on this forum I hope to clarify this: am I doing myself a disservice by training “on some days” more then a 100 Swings with 90-100 percent maximal effort with sufficient recovery? Or are there benefits to varying the volume with the same intensity ?
 
I have used both S and S by the book and also the waved plan that is linked above. Given an appropriate weight of bell 100 for me is the sweet spot particularly if the power dial is at 7/8.
With the waved plan I looked forward to the drop in volume after the higher days particularly 200 reps. The new 2.0 programs use of the 2 handed swing is a fantastic addition to the S and S universe. Explore higher volume days and review how you go.
 
I have used both S and S by the book and also the waved plan that is linked above. Given an appropriate weight of bell 100 for me is the sweet spot particularly if the power dial is at 7/8.
With the waved plan I looked forward to the drop in volume after the higher days particularly 200 reps. The new 2.0 programs use of the 2 handed swing is a fantastic addition to the S and S universe. Explore higher volume days and review how you go.


Are you referring to the updated release of the book?
 
The volume in Q and D for swings waves between 60-100 for a reason, and for advanced practitioners no less. For me, giving every swing everything I’ve got and overspeeding the eccentric makes 60-100 just right. I kind of feel like you should feel like you are leaving more in the tank after Q and D than other programs.

You can use higher volumes with A+A because even though you are using hardstyle, you’re not giving every rep every ounce of everything you’ve got.

Just my thoughts
 
Remember that the 100 reps a day "minimum effective dose" of training for Simple is at "relatively" lighter weights and managed by the talk test and the recommended programming (with easy days as needed)—in this situation the consistency is key.
Once progressing above Simple and toward Sinister the recommendations change to fewer training days per week etc...

A&A, Q&D etc... play by different "rules"/guidelines
 
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