Golfers elbow with SandS

forkmantis

Level 1 Valued Member
@Owen Chau I know you were offering a form check for @Frank Matthews, but maybe I could get some feedback on mine?

This particular video was filmed at the end of July, which is either just before or at the start of when I was getting golfer and tennis elbow. I was using a 24kg bell. At the time, I was focusing primarily on trying to explode up from the bottom and generate power. Secondarily, I was trying to learn to play chicken w/ the bell and not prematurely hinge, and to keep my shoulders as square as possible.


Edit: I never swing the bell with my dog in the room, but on that particular day she followed my wife into the room.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
@Owen Chau I know you were offering a form check for @Frank Matthews, but maybe I could get some feedback on mine?

Looking forward to Owen's input... but I'll offer mine in the meantime

At the time, I was focusing primarily on trying to explode up from the bottom and generate power. Secondarily, I was trying to learn to play chicken w/ the bell and not prematurely hinge, and to keep my shoulders as square as possible.

You are doing all of this very well! Explosive and powerful, good delay of hinge, shoulders are fairly square.

However, you could clean up the swing with some finesse... part of it is just backing off from a 10 to a 9 on the effort knob (or 9 to 8), which will smooth it out a bit.... The other main thing I'd suggest is focusing on the standing plank. Come into it all at once -- hip extension, knee extension, producing force into the floor (hard surface would be best), legs tight and locked, standing tall with crown of the head to the ceiling, shoulder pulled down towards hip -- and hold that tight position until you hinge. You hit it very briefly, but the rest of your standing time is not tight. I suspect this looseness translates to slightly off-timing at the kettlebell which makes you have to grip it harder.
 

forkmantis

Level 1 Valued Member
You are doing all of this very well! Explosive and powerful, good delay of hinge, shoulders are fairly square.

However, you could clean up the swing with some finesse... part of it is just backing off from a 10 to a 9 on the effort knob (or 9 to 8), which will smooth it out a bit.... The other main thing I'd suggest is focusing on the standing plank. Come into it all at once -- hip extension, knee extension, producing force into the floor (hard surface would be best), legs tight and locked, standing tall with crown of the head to the ceiling, shoulder pulled down towards hip -- and hold that tight position until you hinge. You hit it very briefly, but the rest of your standing time is not tight. I suspect this looseness translates to slightly off-timing at the kettlebell which makes you have to grip it harder.

Thank you, @Anna C

I don't have any newer video showing my current form, but I had started to realize some of the things you were saying. For the purposes of this thread, the video I provided is a better representation of what I was doing when I developed tennis and golfer's elbow, which I hope will reveal anything I'm doing that might have contributed to my injury. I'll pay attention to my standing plank when I'm able to practice again, making sure to hold it until the hinge. I'll also try to pay attention to my grip throughout the entire swing. At the time I filmed this, I didn't even know that overgripping was a thing at all, nevermind something that might cause injury. I'll be very aware of that when I am able to resume practice.
 

Owen Chau

Level 5 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Beast Tamer
@Owen Chau I know you were offering a form check for @Frank Matthews, but maybe I could get some feedback on mine?

This particular video was filmed at the end of July, which is either just before or at the start of when I was getting golfer and tennis elbow. I was using a 24kg bell. At the time, I was focusing primarily on trying to explode up from the bottom and generate power. Secondarily, I was trying to learn to play chicken w/ the bell and not prematurely hinge, and to keep my shoulders as square as possible.


Edit: I never swing the bell with my dog in the room, but on that particular day she followed my wife into the room.
All in all, those swings looks pretty solid.

+1 on all of @Anna C 's suggestions.

Something I would suggest is trying to emphasize projecting the kettlebell forward.
This would ideally help you find a more comfortable grip position (due to the overgripping you mentioned earlier in the thread) and make it easier to pack your shoulders during your swings.

Please let me know how it goes (if you happen to try this).

Keep up the great work!
 

forkmantis

Level 1 Valued Member
All in all, those swings looks pretty solid.

+1 on all of @Anna C 's suggestions.

Something I would suggest is trying to emphasize projecting the kettlebell forward.
This would ideally help you find a more comfortable grip position (due to the overgripping you mentioned earlier in the thread) and make it easier to pack your shoulders during your swings.

Please let me know how it goes (if you happen to try this).

Keep up the great work!

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, @Owen Chau . I will absolutely try projecting the kettlebell forward as soon as I'm able.
 

forkmantis

Level 1 Valued Member
Out of curiosity, what is a reasonable weight to do supinations/pronations with? I started w/ a hammer, but it felt pretty light to me. I got my hands on a 5 lbs steel club, which is a lot heavier. If I don't choke up on it, I can do 10 reps somewhat comfortably, or I could choke up on it to the point where I could do 15 or 20. This feels like the kind of thing where you only want to increase resistance up to a point, and then just sorta maintain. I'm just trying to calibrate what is enough, but not too much.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
It’s kind of hard to get really specific with a weight, as there are so many variables. Such as choking up on the handle as you noted.

This is what I typically use. Three sets of 11 reps per hand. Twice a week as PM

1D6186C0-31A2-4E76-ACCC-23D5E024C020.jpeg
 

forkmantis

Level 1 Valued Member
Three sets of 11 reps per hand. Twice a week as PM

That is a most excellent looking piece of equipment, @offwidth!

I was kinda thinking/hoping sets of 10-15 was right. W/ the hammer I had been using, I could go until I got bored. I didn't feel like it was going to do much. I think the club I got is going to be just about right for me. A set of 10 is slightly challening, but I can still maintain full control.
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
Out of curiosity, what is a reasonable weight to do supinations/pronations with? I started w/ a hammer, but it felt pretty light to me. I got my hands on a 5 lbs steel club, which is a lot heavier. If I don't choke up on it, I can do 10 reps somewhat comfortably, or I could choke up on it to the point where I could do 15 or 20. This feels like the kind of thing where you only want to increase resistance up to a point, and then just sorta maintain. I'm just trying to calibrate what is enough, but not too much.

I've been very happy with my Adex adjustable club and mace.

And I can interchange the weights between the two. The club goes from 3.5 lb up to 25 lb. The mace is more.
 

forkmantis

Level 1 Valued Member
I've been very happy with my Adex adjustable club and mace.

And I can interchange the weights between the two. The club goes from 3.5 lb up to 25 lb. The mace is more.

I didn't even know these existed, @watchnerd. The cost will be a barrier of entry for me, unless I can convince myself that I want to do more with them than just supination/pronation. I did go down a rabbit hole of steel club exercises on youtube just after I bought my 5 lb club just to see what else I could do with them, and I'm at least a little interested in trying more.
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
I didn't even know these existed, @watchnerd. The cost will be a barrier of entry for me, unless I can convince myself that I want to do more with them than just supination/pronation. I did go down a rabbit hole of steel club exercises on youtube just after I bought my 5 lb club just to see what else I could do with them, and I'm at least a little interested in trying more.

Clubs and maces are for the shoulders what KBs are for the hips. ;)

I use clubs and maces on my "variety" days twice a week. It takes the grip and shoulder work that KBs give you to the next level.
 

barrak

Level 5 Valued Member
Clubs and maces are for the shoulders what KBs are for the hips. ;)

I use clubs and maces on my "variety" days twice a week. It takes the grip and shoulder work that KBs give you to the next level.

Mace back swings alone, along with dead hangs, have done wonders for my shoulders and posture.
They are now my standard warmups before Q&D snatch sessions.
 

Pete S

Level 6 Valued Member
@forkmantis You can easily upgrade your clubs by adding low cost baseball bat weights that fit over the handle and sit nicely on the fatter part of the club. They come in 1-lb, 2-lb, or larger sizes. I use 2-lb weights and can easily fit two of them on my modest clubs, although one provides a tighter fit for ballistic movements.
 

barrak

Level 5 Valued Member
I didn't even know these existed, @watchnerd. The cost will be a barrier of entry for me, unless I can convince myself that I want to do more with them than just supination/pronation. I did go down a rabbit hole of steel club exercises on youtube just after I bought my 5 lb club just to see what else I could do with them, and I'm at least a little interested in trying more.

Pick a stout staff during your next hike, drive a couple of nails/screws in it and dip it in a small pot of concrete mix. That's how they make gadas (maces) in India.
 

Frank Matthews

Level 3 Valued Member
The problem I'm finding is that when I'm sufficiently warm and doing s&s i have no pain. Golfers elbow is chronic and shows up at different times of the day. So how do i know how much to back off? I too have a theraband and use a hammer( the hammer i can feel the pain in the tendon while twisting) for a week now I've not touched a KB and been doing high rep burpees for 15 mins then hand balancing and bridging but i don't even think that has helped.
 

forkmantis

Level 1 Valued Member
One of the first threads I read here about tennis/golfer's elbow had a link to this article in it. I found it pretty informative. I will say, both my sports medicine doctor and my physical therapist seem to disagree with the article on the issue of inflammation. I was prescribed anti-inflammatory medication, and was advised to use ice to treat inflammation. On that issue, I'm not sure who is correct.
 
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