Other/Mixed Grappling Arts

[sizzlefuzz]

Once you've gotten the ground grappling game under your belt you may want to expand to becoming a good standup grappler also with some judo training. 36% of judo wins at the international level are on the ground using the same moves as in BJJ, so there is a huge crossover.

Training in Judo would be amazing, however there isn't a place near me that offers it. Because of that, my stand up game is centered around wrestling stuff since we have guys that wrestled in HS and college or trained in MMA and have a lot of skills to share on that side. Stand up training is so much fun!

Though, speaking of the Judo/BJJ crossover Travis Stevens' gym is about a 2 hour drive from me. I went there for a BJJ open mat last year like a month after the Olympics. It was pretty cool to get to roll with Travis (it went about as well as you'd think) and meet Kayla Harrison as well. Kayla was just drilling because she had "only trained like twice since the Olympics". If you win your second straight gold medal, you can take as much time off as you want in my book.

 

[Kozushi]

Training in Judo would be amazing, however there isn't a place near me that offers it. Because of that, my stand up game is centered around wrestling stuff since we have guys that wrestled in HS and college or trained in MMA and have a lot of skills to share on that side. Stand up training is so much fun!

Though, speaking of the Judo/BJJ crossover Travis Stevens' gym is about a 2 hour drive from me. I went there for a BJJ open mat last year like a month after the Olympics. It was pretty cool to get to roll with Travis (it went about as well as you'd think) and meet Kayla Harrison as well. Kayla was just drilling because she had "only trained like twice since the Olympics". If you win your second straight gold medal, you can take as much time off as you want in my book.

To me wrestling and judo are the same thing except wrestling is the Greek sport with no gi and Judo is the Japanese sport with a gi. The use of the gi seems to change the dynamic to one more focussed on pulling and less on lifting whereas wrestling depends a lot more on lifting (and therefore more like lifting weights.) Judo comes from the old sumo rules actually, where the ring was huge so you couldn't focus your strategy on pushing the guy out, and joint locks were permitted. BJJ to me is really the same thing as judo on the ground. BJJ is a super big help for judo because 36% of victories happen on the ground, and of course at the club level when we fight on the ground it's nice to have BJJ under your belt too! It's all fascinating stuff. If you're doing wrestling then you're not missing out on anything in my opinion! Cool!

Wrestling VERY sadly doesn't seem to be done at a club level where I live - it's only a varsity sport. In the past, before Judo came (and other martial arts) I think there were in fact wrestling clubs that guys would go to after work to stay in shape and fighting trim, but I guess the imported martial arts beat them out for popularity. Kind of a shame I think because wrestling is older and arguably more developed and refined than any of them. Judo (and BJJ for that matter) are still trying to figure out how to get past problems of stalling in matches and other philosophical-type issues about what makes the sport more or less combat-effective. (For instance, leg-grabs, which are huge in wrestling, tend to end in stalling and getting pushed down to the mat in judo, and stopped the action so much that they're banned now, which I do think is excellent for "judo" itself as a combat _sport_ but do detract from its defensive combat effectiveness because we aren't training any more how to sprawl or to stuff those kind of attacks. The ban does however allow us to be much more aggressive, so it's a bit of a catch-22 there. Personally I do not agree with the leg grab ban, and I'm sorry they did it as it makes judo less like wrestling than it had become through the internationalization and westernization of judo over the years.)

Anyhow, can't beat grappling sports for constant 100% full body and mind engagement!

 

[sizzlefuzz]

Judo (and BJJ for that matter) are still trying to figure out how to get past problems of stalling in matches and other philosophical-type issues about what makes the sport more or less combat-effective. (For instance, leg-grabs, which are huge in wrestling, tend to end in stalling and getting pushed down to the mat in judo, and stopped the action so much that they're banned now, which I do think is excellent for "judo" itself as a combat _sport_ but do detract from its defensive combat effectiveness because we aren't training any more how to sprawl or to stuff those kind of attacks. The ban does however allow us to be much more aggressive, so it's a bit of a catch-22 there. Personally I do not agree with the leg grab ban, and I'm sorry they did it as it makes judo less like wrestling than it had become through the internationalization and westernization of judo over the years.)

The point about leg grabs was more what I was referring to when I mentioned being focused on wrestling-based attacks. If you saw me try the classical throws, I'd be doing pushups and wall sits until the cows came home, however it's hard to work on that stuff since the knowledge is hard to come by here. Single, double, bodylock are my primary takedowns, although I'm trying to get on task with the Ouchi Gari because it fits in nicely with the aforementioned takedowns.

I was watching a fair amount of both the wrestling and Judo worlds recently and enjoyed watching the young man (I think he was like 19 or something) who crosstrains BJJ with Bruno Malfacine, he was laying down some really cool stuff out there. Also, Did you see Kyle Snyder v. Abdulrashid Sadulaev match? I like the "step out" rule from wrestling, and I think BJJ would do well to adopt it. People are allowed far too many fouls in BJJ matches before the penalties are deterrence.

 

[Kozushi]

The point about leg grabs was more what I was referring to when I mentioned being focused on wrestling-based attacks. If you saw me try the classical throws, I'd be doing pushups and wall sits until the cows came home, however it's hard to work on that stuff since the knowledge is hard to come by here. Single, double, bodylock are my primary takedowns, although I'm trying to get on task with the Ouchi Gari because it fits in nicely with the aforementioned takedowns.

I was watching a fair amount of both the wrestling and Judo worlds recently and enjoyed watching the young man (I think he was like 19 or something) who crosstrains BJJ with Bruno Malfacine, he was laying down some really cool stuff out there. Also, Did you see Kyle Snyder v. Abdulrashid Sadulaev match? I like the "step out" rule from wrestling, and I think BJJ would do well to adopt it. People are allowed far too many fouls in BJJ matches before the penalties are deterrence.

Rules are always a big complication for grappling sports. If we're talking about demonstrating superiority, I think being able to push someone out of the ring, or pick them off and walk out with them ought to count to demonstrate this. You also get stuck between standing wrestling and ground wrestling. As in BJJ, the fight continues forever on the ground, even though all the throws and takedowns are allowed, you end up missing out on the clinch grappling, and for wrestling you miss the submissions, and for judo you miss the lengthy ground battles. This kind of stuff makes me lose interest to a degree in the competitive sports versions of these arts. I think that competition is an important part of the whole picture, and something I think someone wanting to open up a big club must prove himself in, but it is far less important than the other parts. Something nice about judo is that in the dojo we separate the stand up and ground grappling phases (for the most part) and treat them almost like different sports, and it's nice to do both. Still, we lack striking which is a big oversight, although maybe excusable since it frankly has its risks! If you are training BJJ and wrestling simultaneously I don't think you are missing out on anything.

 

[nogibjjgear00]

If you are training BJJ and wrestling simultaneously I don't think you are missing out on anything.

I have started training in No Gi recently. Should i start training in wrestling as well? Won't it be a little too much to absorb?

 

[Kozushi]

I have started training in No Gi recently. Should i start training in wrestling as well? Won't it be a little too much to absorb?

My understanding is yes, but depending on the coach you might be learning a lot of wrestling as part and parcel of your no gi BJJ training already.
It isn't too much to absorb, no, I don't think so. It's just more time you're out training and you might not have that time.