Greyskull LP

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

conor78

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I generally like standards and the ones used by Dan John are very useful. They give you something to aim towards. It's because I have a bit more time and I pay a monthly gym fee I felt I would look at incorporating a barbell program and use KB at home. I have run it for a week and I like it, it's challenging and is flexible and gives options for conditioning. Did deadlifts yesterday and I needsd the rest day today. Off on holidays tomorrow so I'll see where I am when I get back.
 

Kettlebelephant

Level 6 Valued Member
Can somebody describe the program a little bit?
I don't want to give away too much of JPs work, but basically it's Starting Strength with less squatting, not so aggressive weight increases and the most important part a AMRAP top set.
Because of the lower volume in squats and the smaller weight increases you have room for some other work like curls, pullups, calf raises etc. (JP calls them plugins) and some conditioning without compromising your progress in the big 4.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Kettlebelephant, who is JP? I looked through the earlier parts of the thread - maybe it's the tiny screen I'm working on - but couldn't find that.

Thanks.

-S-
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
It's still true that it's not necessary to go beyond those benchmarks. ... Of course I can not back this up with any kind of scientific research, but when it comes to the things life can throw at you, I argue that maintaining the benchmarks and then focusing on yoga for a year, then focusing on swimming for the next year, then focusing on running the next year, then climbing etc... (I think you get point of what I'm trying to say :)) will have a much bigger impact than using your limited time to train (because of family, job etc.) to increase your lifts beyond the benchmarks.
Just rereading this - no, I do not agree. I deadlift, overhead press, walk, and stretch. I cannot see what swimming or running or yoga would do for me. I'm 61 years old and maintain a DL 1RM between 2.25 and 2.5 times body weight.

What constitutes a "bigger impact?" My resting pulse, in the middle of the day, is in the mid-50's, and I can out-walk people half my age in terms of endurance.

I don't mean to be argumentative but I really do think that strong + stretch + walk is all anyone needs unless they participate in a sport that demands other things.

-S-
 

Kettlebelephant

Level 6 Valued Member
Just rereading this - no, I do not agree. I deadlift, overhead press, walk, and stretch. I cannot see what swimming or running or yoga would do for me. I'm 61 years old and maintain a DL 1RM between 2.25 and 2.5 times body weight.

What constitutes a "bigger impact?" My resting pulse, in the middle of the day, is in the mid-50's, and I can out-walk people half my age in terms of endurance.

I don't mean to be argumentative but I really do think that strong + stretch + walk is all anyone needs unless they participate in a sport that demands other things.
You kind of proving what I wanted to say. You maintain that 2.5xBW deadlift and spend time on stretching and walking, because you found out that it benefits you.
Imagine you would spend the time used for walking and stretching to increase your deadlift to 3.5xBW. Would you still be as supple as you are now and would you still be able to out-walk people half your age?
That was my whole point. I'd rather keep my deadlift at 2.5xBW and focus on things that improve other aspects of my life than spending all the time and energy I could use for that to increase my deadlift to 3, 3.5 or 4xBW.

The thing about swimming etc. was just an example of what you can use. When I did crossfit everyone was talking about how it prepares you for everything that life can throw at you and stuff like that. They talked about scenarios like "imagine your plane crashes in the mountains". Being able to swim, climb and run with a 450lbs deadlift will benefit you more than never doing anything of this but having a 550-600lbs deadlift.

And btw it's fine to be argumentative :) I think nowadays a lot of people lose their ability and "will" to have a meaningful argument. At least I get that feeling when talking to other people my age.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
My point was that I picked my DL number for myself and did not obey someone's idea of what a proper DL should be in relation to bodyweight. Of course, there will always be a point of diminishing returns; my point is that we can't count on a formula for anything other than very general guidance.

I've been a swimmer and a runner. One can acquire a skill and then not practice it without losing it altogether.

-S-
 

JamesO

Level 4 Valued Member
I really enjoy what I'm doing right now.

I workout fives times per week.
  • Three days have a heavy barbell lift; some kind of press; pull-ups, dips, or both. I finish these days with 5-10 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic work. Tonight it was on the minute swings with a heavy bell for 10 minutes.

  • The other two days are olympic lifting technique days and a 20-25 minute easy row. The lifting takes about 20 minutes on these days and its moderate intensity. Not heavy, not light. It's about technique.
 

Kyle Schuant

Level 1 Valued Member
Can somebody describe the program a little bit?
The programme is no secret. There are many variations but the basic one is,
Monday - squat 5,5,5+; press 5,5,5+
Wednesday - bench 5,5,5+, deadlift 5+
Friday - squat 5,5,5+;press 5,5,5+
and in the following week it's the same except you swap out press for bench. "5+" means at least 5 reps, keep going until you feel the next one would be grindy and/or messy. Normal weights progression is 1kg a time on press or bench, and 2kg a time on squat or deadlift. Optionally, if you get 12+ you might double the progression next time.

It arose as a variant of Starting Strength because the authour was depressed by endless stalls and deloads; better slow and sustained progress than fast progress with setbacks, goes the reasoning. Whether it's physically better is up to argument, but I think it's mentally better. Thus, GSLP in its most basic form is basically SS with one less squat session a week, and the "as many" sets at the end.

From there he adds in "plugins" if you want more gunz or abz or are doing it for weightlifting or whatever.

My thought are these.

1. doing just two exercises a session lets you focus your efforts on them, rather than leaving something in the tank for a third, fourth etc as in other programmes. This is also useful for time-poor people.
2. Since you are squatting twice a week and deadlifting once, squats will get ahead of deadlifts unless you're doing quite high reps (12+) in deadlift, and
3. high reps in deadlifts risks injury, at least in newbies.
4. fatigue degrading form is an issue with every lift. A newbie needs to practice doing it right, not practice doing it wrong (as an aside, this is one flaw in vanilla SS - doing 3 sets of chinups to failure). Yes, it does say to stop when it gets messy, but to a newbie every rep feels messy, it's all new to them. So then really it's just up to the newbie's personality if they err on the side of wuss or on the side of meathead; one leads to less progress and the other to injury. But this really is an issue for anyone using any programme on their own, and is not a particular flaw for GSLP.
5. "as many" sets build volume. A newbie is lifting relatively small loads and thus can handle a higher total number of reps, and it probably does them good to do them. As the load increases the benefit will decrease, but the person will drop reps anyway (from from 12-15 to 6-8 or even 5).
6. "as many" in combination with small jumps builds confidence. The newbie doesn't know what they're capable of, if they did 60kg for 5,5,5 they may be in doubt about hitting 62.5kg for 5,5,5; but if they did 60kg 5,5,11 they're not worried about hitting 61kg 5,5,5 at least.

So... fatigue degrading form vs volume & confidence. Which side the balance comes down on is open to argument. I would say that if it's someone's first time with barbells and they are not co-ordinated etc, I'd err on the side of less reps and something closer to vanilla SS. If they've had some barbell experience and/or are co-ordinated, the volume and confidence win out.

I have done a couple of runs of a variant of this. For reference, I am 45yo with a few old injuries, and two small children. I train people out of my garage gym. I just alternated bench/squat with press/deadlift, and stuck to the +1/+2kg jumps regardless of reps done. At 100kg for squat and deadlift I turned the 5+ into an ordinary 5, as the squats were taking too much out of me and deadlifts, well I have back problems already. After a while I dropped it to 2pw and did something else for my third. I have done this for 12 months out of the last 18, with some other stuff spread in between, best lifts squat 165, bench 110 and deadlift 215 for singles.
 

conor78

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I tend to hover around the DJ game changer benchmarks in squat and in DL (not sure if this is WTH effect) with minimal barbell training, the MP and BP I tend to be around the acceptable. For me to try to move towards game changers in these will require a more specific approach/program but as in everything there is cost benefit tension at work. I also like to keep an on conditioning. GLP looks a good program to accommodate both.
On a separate note Steve, have you have up swimming and running altogether?
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@conor78, yes. Although I was never a triathlete, I trained running, swimming, and bicycling for a number of years. I didn't do any organized sports as a kid and started running in my mid 20's as an antidote to the hours I was spending sitting at a piano keyboard.

I was never much of a runner - lifetime 5k best is 20:10 set at age 45.

I enjoyed swimming enough that I became a teacher, a lifeguard, and a lifeguard instructor at my local YMCA, all as a volunteer. I used to swim a mile or so 3 times a week with some interval work in there.

And I was an "A" level road bikie in the local club here, built up and rode a fixed gear, and own a tandem and a triplet that I'd ride with some combination of family members.

Now for the most part, I press a kettlebell overhead, I do weighted pull-ups, and I deadlift a barbell - and I stretch, and I walk.

-S-
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Folks, please also remember we have a number of "get bigger and be as strong as you look" programs in Pavel's "Beyond Bodybuilding."

-S-
 

JeffC

Level 7 Valued Member
Sorry @Kyle Schuant. I was going based off of this link, I do not have the book. GreySkull LP Isn’t Good, It’s Great

I do not see anything innovative, or different in this program compared with other similar programs. The program in the link has press before squat, or deadlift, that is the only change I see compared to similar core lift programs. I had read a study that showed press before squat has less impact on your squat output than vise versa. I change up the order of my exercises also in an effort to increase adaptation.
 

Cattleballs

Level 2 Valued Member
The thing about swimming etc. was just an example of what you can use. When I did crossfit everyone was talking about how it prepares you for everything that life can throw at you and stuff like that. They talked about scenarios like "imagine your plane crashes in the mountains". Being able to swim, climb and run with a 450lbs deadlift will benefit you more than never doing anything of this but having a 550-600lbs deadlift.
Always confuses me this thinking, surely if you were training for the possibility of such a scenario, the best preparation would be some sort of mountaineering/bushcraft course rather than doing pull ups for time.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Top Bottom