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Old Forum GS and HS- An observation on Al Ciampa's swings

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Matt

Level 3 Valued Member
Thanks Steve, I wasn’t aware of this – well, I was under the (misconception) that GS was aiming more for endurance.

I guess it could come down to a trade-off between intensity and endurance, which is what you were referring to in your first post. Interesting observation.
 

Physical Culture

Level 6 Valued Member
Matt wrote:

"Thanks Steve, I wasn’t aware of this – well, I was under the (misconception) that GS was aiming more for endurance."

Matt, GS is about power endurance, but athletes usually train for this endurance not by increasing maximal strength or power, but by improving their ability to recover between reps and keep lifting.  As a general rule, if a GS athlete is strong enough to complete eight reps, he or she is strong enough to train with that weight toward a full 10 minute set (or longer).

"I guess it could come down to a trade-off between intensity and endurance, which is what you were referring to in your first post.  Interesting observation."

You are exactly right!  Sergey Rudnev c0-wrote a paper with Lopatin about the role of strength and endurance in GS, and one of  his conclusions was that athletes fail to complete 10 minute sets because their pace is too high to relax and recover between reps.

 
 

Matt

Level 3 Valued Member
I must admit Steve, I always thought to myself when reading your posts (in the past years/months) or wondering: "Why would you or your coach do what seemed to be more of a "sprint drill" to train endurance?".  NOW it makes sense (ie. I didn't understand GS correctly) - and I find it both quite impressive and interesting.  Thanks for posting!!

I'll have to somehow go back and re-read some of your older posts.  I've also just bought SS to learn more about (in general) some of these ideas and training.
 

Physical Culture

Level 6 Valued Member
Matt,  some GS coaches favor a lot of short sets that look more like sprint work.  Here's a template from Rudnev: http://girevoysportafter40.blogspot.com/2008/08/long-cycle-and-otw.html.  Only one in seven of his sets are 5m or longer, and only a third of the sessions have 5m or longer sets.  Lots of 1m sprints.

It seems counter-intuitive that 1m sets would prepare an athlete for 10m sets, until you look behind the training.  To use this template, for example, Rudnev gives lots of short sets, but his students are cadets at a military academy.  They get lots of GPP and running.  He does not assign strength work or cardio in the template, because they are getting it.  This is the thing that Russians seem to assume- the student will be running, or rowing, or skiing, or doing some kind of steady-state cardio.

This has been my weakness for the last few years- sticking to training templates without logging in my cardio.  My results could have been much better.  I won't be saying that this time next year.
 

meadsy

First Post
Sorry to hijack but I feel I don't frasp Hardstyle laziness, either.

Is the difference:

HS Laziness - we realize that maximum force production is NOT from maximum effort and also aim to produce the maximum force with the minimum effort which can acheieve it

GS - aim to move a bell to (for example) the snatch lockout with minimum effort, without being concerned about the level of force produced which gets it there

Also, if force is OUR aim, is there any benefit from trying to get our swings as high as possible? Or does the energy conservation element of HSL dictate 'A swing need only be waist to chest height, don't aim for higher'?
 
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