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Bodyweight GTG Static Dip Holds: Skill vs Strength vs Hypertrophy

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watchnerd

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So I've got one of these things:

41BEwIeBjjL._AC_.jpg



I've moved it into my home office and taken out the connecting bit so I can make it more unstable.

Why do I want it more unstable?

So it's more wobbly. Because I'm trying to work on my progression for ring-turned-out (RTO) support holds. These things:

image_iphone.jpg


Unfortunately, my home office doesn't have room for a ring set up (it's already crowded enough with a few KBs, my hobby mixing studio, and bass guitar).

So as I result, I've been practicing dip isometric holds, with a hollow body position, as a GTG exercise during the work day.

Basically, this:

1595568022528.jpeg


I've been doing it for about 3 days now, 3x a day, for 3 sets of static holds each time -- 60 sec hold, rest 60 second. 5 minutes of time total.

So, with a small sample size, here is my GTG comment and query:

1. Skill -- If GTG is primarily for building strength through honing skill, I don't think this is a highly skill-dependent move. This is a tension exercise with no movement, and once you know how to hold a hollow body hold and position the arms correctly, there isn't a huge skilling element, even compared to a push up or pull up.

2. Strength -- Strength, or at least strength endurance, seems to be improving, and quickly. Which shouldn't be surprising given what we know about isometrics, even simple planks.

3. Hypertrophy -- No swole or pump. No burn. Just the shakes at the end of the set.

So..... is it really GTG if there is no 'groove' to skill?

Is there a separate term of art for holds done, submaximally, a few times a day?
 
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I'd argue that tension endurance still has a skill element - maintaining just the right amount, no more no less. So I think there's still some motor neuron learning going on there, which might explain the quick endurance gains.
 
I'd argue that tension endurance still has a skill element - maintaining just the right amount, no more no less. So I think there's still some motor neuron learning going on there, which might explain the quick endurance gains.

Sure, it's not zero.

But I think the diminishing returns to skill improvement kicks in earlier; it's not like mastering a barbell snatch.
 
You may review that doing turned out ring holds.
I agree, skill in movement it may not be but there is a skill component in learning tension technique.
If turned out ring holds are a 10. Top position ring holds, I'd say 5, bar holds a 3.
That is for me.
There's certainly a mobility/strength component to turned out...strength in end range which for me makes them considerably harder. And when doing them, there is more ab/torso/core activity going on.
I've been doing 5x5.
Today being a 5x5 day (pull ups/dips), in a l/m/h format, I do turned out holds on my light day.
Adding them other days, fatigues me quicker and affects my form. I will, or intend to, work up to 5x5 with turned out holds as the end progression.
Probably not a skill per se but certainly a progressive tension builder and they are deceptive!
 
Today being a 5x5 day (pull ups/dips), in a l/m/h format, I do turned out holds on my light day.

I also follow a H/L/M regime and do ring work on Light days.

Realizing I need to practice it more often is what lead me to try GTG with parallel bar holds.

(I'm also experimenting with turning the bars out)
 
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How is the bar turning out going?

If you are ending up as if in a turned out position on rings, that'll be your start position too.
On rings, starting from parallel and pressing up and out, you'll be pressing from the out turned position.
Is that putting your shoulders in a vulnerable position?
I'm asking that generally as I don't know personally but would feel you won't be able to get to a good pressing position at the start but that would depend on 'your' shoulders and 'your' ROM rather than in general, maybe.
I maybe inclined to just do a hold, not the press, to see how it goes first. Use a step, maybe?
Good luck!
 
How is the bar turning out going?

If you are ending up as if in a turned out position on rings, that'll be your start position too.
On rings, starting from parallel and pressing up and out, you'll be pressing from the out turned position.
Is that putting your shoulders in a vulnerable position?
I'm asking that generally as I don't know personally but would feel you won't be able to get to a good pressing position at the start but that would depend on 'your' shoulders and 'your' ROM rather than in general, maybe.
I maybe inclined to just do a hold, not the press, to see how it goes first. Use a step, maybe?
Good luck!

I'm now doing 3 sets of holds, and each set I wide the V of the bars a bit.

Now that I have my upgraded BFR cuffs, I may try wearing them while holding, see what happens.
 
If what you're doing is working then by all means stick with it. These are my two cents as someone who used to do swinging RTO top-supports before my shoulder surgery in 2017. By the way, the surgery very likely didn't have anything to do with the rings :)

I would treat these as a conditioning drill more than a skill. A big reason they are so hard is the stress they place on the elbow joint. You need to develop the brachialis in that end-range position as well as the tendon strength. This means physiological adaptations which need more intensity followed by adequate rest. Sure there are lots of other stabilizers at work and practice will help, but I would do these for a few sets of 15-30 seconds a few times a week. If you're doing them right you may feel a weird kind of biceps soreness near the elbow.

If you don't have a ring set up then keep on what you're doing until you do. You can add straight arm shrugs in that position as well, just try not to lean or hunch forward; stay TALL. If you're doing sets of 60s holds on the bars with good form then you can very likely do rings. If you can hang rings from a pull up bar or something, I would just hop up on them and support yourself with your feet for a while as you adapt.

An in-between would be to hang the rings from the dip bars (or whatever works) and do turned-out planks, scap shrugs and pushups to work that straight arm.
 
I’m not sure if skill is the right word here but motor efficiency improvement should definitely be occurring in regards to perfecting position.

I think this is the basic parallel bar position however and that it lays the groundwork for more difficult skills. Why not start doing L-Sits and smaller planche progressions on top of it?

the unstable element makes it a bit more challenging so the little stabilizing muscles have a bit more work so getting those to fire may techinixally be a new recruitment “skill”...
 
Why not start doing L-Sits and smaller planche progressions on top of it?

Time and specificity.

Bodyweight work is accessory work for my weightlifting sport, until the season is over.

Ring holds and dips help me with lockout on the jerk.

After the American Open in late September, I'll have the rest of fall and winter to play more with progressing bodyweight skills.

In August (next week) I'll start shifting out of pre-season conditioning and hypertrophy to pre-competition prep, which involves more training days per week, more technique drills, more max attempts, and less time for accessory work.
 
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