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Bodyweight Gymnastics

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I love viewing training as practice, a very useful philosophy. I find the practice mindset is both freeing and directing. So in your example @Steve Freides , one would have a particular movement that is a staple in their routine for their cycle, but the way they practice it each session may vary depending on what they want to focus on. And especially if it was a more gymnastics based movement, they would focus on quality and improvement, rather than sets, reps, time. One session may be long, the next may be shorter depending on the quality.

Could the focus be varied frequently? In your example, practicing taking two-to-a-bow one day then a different focus the next? Or practicing two-to-a-bow every time for a many sessions? Or does it matter?
For a handstand example, kickups one day, shoulder weaving the next, then holding for longer time another? Or kickups for several weeks in a row?
 
Hello,

Coach Sommer's Building the Gymnastic Body gives really good exercises and progressions. Nevertheless, the book doesn't give sets / reps. It is above all based on the "feeling" (if we can hold a position or not). May be it is a "difficult" book to begin with ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
BTGB does have some rep/set recommendations, mainly the Steady State Cycle, but it's pretty nebulous. This was a big hit agaisnt the book, and in fact in newer material (Foundation) that Sommers has released, the sets/reps are completely chosen for you since the beginning to the end. So he has shifted towards much more regimented sets/reps.

Sommers' material is very, very specific to gymnastics training. His standards for moving on through various "steps" on his books are way too overkill (5x60s holds of hollow body, with 30 secs rest for instance... I have gymnast friends who can't even do that) for the general population however. That's a big issue with his newest material. Most other gymnastics strength training materials (like Overcoming Gravity and GMB) tends to be a lot more about "feeling positions", "practicing", and improving without killing yourself. I 'd recommend those for anyone wanting to dabble in gymnastics. As Steve said, this kind of training (where the sets and reps are just roughly outlined, and auto-regulation is encouraged) is very good for GST since it's so skill-based.
 
In your example, practicing taking two-to-a-bow one day then a different focus the next? Or practicing two-to-a-bow every time for a many sessions? Or does it matter?
That's where how to practice starts to get personal. I tend to work on a particular skill like that for several weeks at a time, but if it's a skill you're already proficient at, you may be able to spend less time, and/or you may have a weekly rotation of things you like to keep at a certain level and do each only once a week. I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all here.

-S-
 
I have to agree with Pavel M
Coach Sommer is the man. Listen to THIS outstanding interview.

My personal recommendation - learn and master our SFB skills before you go more into the gymnastics.

I of course am biased ....but do agree with Pavel. Learning and mastering out SFB skills will give you a solid foundation to all other gymnastics strength training. I have also been to Coach Sommers workshop and feel that those that start there but do not have the proper strength and flexibility base will get a bit frustrated.

"we would not build a house on quick sand" :) so BUILD your sold strength and mobility/flexibility base first then PLAY with other gymnastics skills. I touch on other gymnastics skills in our SFB course and certifications as I have a gymnastics background from childhood.

Also - what skills are you interested in working and I would be happy to give you some more direction within the PLAY/PRACTICE while still doing your other training.
 
Thanks for posting the podcast link. Great listen. Massive amount of content to digest with some really useful insights, only halfway through and need a coffee break. Building up for the second half
 
Thanks for posting the podcast link. Great listen. Massive amount of content to digest with some really useful insights, only halfway through and need a coffee break. Building up for the second half

Latest episode is out of Tim Ferris with more gymnastics content
 
Hello,

A little (and certainly stupid question) : what is more challenging for the core : HLR (SF standard) or Dragon flags ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

I saw that the front lever is part of SFB cert.

What are the standards for this move ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
The HLR as done in gymnastics circles (where you touch your pointed toes to the bar) requires an insane amount of abdominal strength and compression, as well as absurd flexibility. That's quite a bit harder than the Dragon Flag.

The SF HLR though is just roughly shins/ankles to the bar, which makes sense as the population doesn't need such rigorous standards (the hip angle doesn't have to be so damn close... all you're doing is closing the shoulder angle to compensate). That's a good bit easier than a proper Dragon Flag. Heck, most people can't even do a proper Dragon Flag.

As far as the FL is concerned, I can only assume the SFB standards are the same as the regular standards. Straight arms, shoulders in a neutral and depressed position, body parallel to the ground and abs completely flexed (hollow body position/posterior pelvic tilt/no lower back arch... all different ways of saying the same thing ) :)) It looks super impressive when done properly. I'm still trying to get there hehe.
 
Hello,

@305pelusa
Straight arms, shoulders in a neutral and depressed position, body parallel to the ground and abs completely flexed

Ah yes ! I do it properly for 3 seconds when completely fresh ! :)

I am sure you are close, with the straddle planche carryover, right ?

I used Beast Skill progressions to do it. It works well on me. I train it 3 times a week (at the beginning). Nevertheless it appeared that it was a bit to taxing for me. Then I worked it only 2 times a week then I started to progress again.

A good combination is working out front and back lever at the same time (agonist and antagonist work, both for back and shoulders). I suppose you already own the BL due to your straddle planche.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

@305pelusa


Ah yes ! I do it properly for 3 seconds when completely fresh ! :)

I am sure you are close, with the straddle planche carryover, right ?

I used Beast Skill progressions to do it. It works well on me. I train it 3 times a week (at the beginning). Nevertheless it appeared that it was a bit to taxing for me. Then I worked it only 2 times a week then I started to progress again.

A good combination is working out front and back lever at the same time (agonist and antagonist work, both for back and shoulders). I suppose you already own the BL due to your straddle planche.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Umh yeah I can hold it for a couple of seconds. But it's quite a struggle and a bit inconsistent so I'm not quite where I want to be. That's also how my straddle planche is at the moment. It's pretty rough still so plenty of work to do!

I'm not sure the planche and FL carry over much to one another. Really, they're the exact same antagonist groups.

Back Lever I got a long time ago. It's by far the easiest of the statics. I don't train it much though so idk.

It's pretty exciting to hear you're pretty advanced with the FL. If you live close to the the Boston area, we should totally train one day dude!
 
Hello,

Back Lever I got a long time ago. It's by far the easiest of the statics. I don't train it much though so idk

I read in "Building the gymnastic body" (C. Sommer) that this move can help a little with planche. Your abs have to maintain the whole lower body, like in planche. I agree, it is almost "easy" to own that move because shoulder joint resist naturally to gravity.

Hard Style Abs (one of Pavel's book) is a good book to work solely abs. Even if there are only 2 main moves, the technique used to do it makes them super hard!

My abs training is also my warm-up (is you can see in my log "a french training log"). A really enjoy L-Sit (holding for 30s) and dragon flags. Superman plank also works well and builds strong shoulders

Excepting S&S and weigthed pistols, I use more and more cals. My joints feel better !

If you live close to the the Boston area, we should totally train one day dude!
I'd like too but I live in France (near Paris) :( Yes, I have to train to avoid becomming too fat !

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
just started to do these @pet to have some more trunk strength and hamstring flexibility. feel a lot more robust combining gymnastics with resistance training lately
 
Hello,

@Glen
Yes, what I like in the V-Sit is that it requires both strength and flexibility. Currently, I can not make an angle superior to 45°. Hope one day I will !

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

@Glen
Yes, what I like in the V-Sit is that it requires both strength and flexibility. Currently, I can not make an angle superior to 45°. Hope one day I will !

Kind regards,

Pet'
For general strength purposes, I don't think you need to make the angle more than 45 degrees - look at the top picture of the V-sit above - his lower back is almost parallel to the ground. While that's nice to be able to do for a gymnast, I don't know that it's necessary or even good for most people to aspire to. To put it another way, consider the angle of the hips and legs in all three pictures - I don't think they're terribly different, and the difference is largely in spinal flexion.

I mean no disrespect to gymnasts here, but my mindset is getting the most reward for the least risk for a general population, and in that context, I think an L-sit is a better choice.

-S-
 
To put it another way, consider the angle of the hips and legs in all three pictures - I don't think they're terribly different, and the difference is largely in spinal flexion.
I respectfully disagree with this. For one thing, the hip angle is very different. The L-sit has about 90 degrees, and a correct V-sit (which isn't far from that top picture... the guy is good) requires an almost fully closed hip angle. So closed that you should almost touch your nose to the knees.

This does not come from spinal flexion. If it did, you'd end up with those toe-touch looking positions where people are super hunched over, touching their forehead to the knees. The V-sit, however, requires true hip flexibility. Note how his chin is almost by his knees. This shows how is really comes from a much more closed hip angle. His HLR is toes-to-bar, which tells the same story.

The shoulder angle is also the other large difference. In an L-sit, you could have the arms by the sides. The V-sit (and later on Manna) require far more shoulder extension to push the hips in front of the hands. This is why the V-sit is so hard on your shoulders and triceps. It requires a ton of shoulder active flexibility. It is this pushing of the hips forward that places the back more parallel to the floor. It is not about spinal flexion.

I mean no disrespect to gymnasts here, but my mindset is getting the most reward for the least risk for a general population, and in that context, I think an L-sit is a better choice.
Well, the V-sit is simply a Hanging Leg Raise, but with the hands in support instead of hanging. The true challenge comes from having shoulders flexible and strong enough to help you lean back slightly (just how you have to lean back slightly in the HLR right?), and having flexible/strong hips to be able to bring the knees to the face.

Regardless, it's a very unrealistic position for anyone without a gymnastics background. I think I can keep working on my V-sit and maybe get it to a 60 degree angle to the floor (so my feet would be roughly higher than head level), but getting the full 90 degrees requires such an insane amount of hip flexor active flexibility and hamstring flexibility, that I don't think I could get it at this point.
 
Hello,

I do L-Sit as part of my warm-up. When I first saw this video, I wanted to try the V-Sit for curiosity. I posted these 2 because they show some progressions for those who do cals here.

I hold an L-Sit about a little bit more than 25 - 30s, do dragon flags and I also maintain a front lever for 3s. With this move, my main constraint remains flexibility. Even when I am on the ground, I am barely supple enough to touch my knees with my nose.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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