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Kettlebell Hand Position in KB Training

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Kettlebelephant

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Hey!
I'd like to know your hand position or more precisely the way the KB sits in your palm and whether you change it from time to time.
I'm asking this because i use a position like this Pic2.jpg where the KB sits diagonally across my palm. I feel a lot more stable during presses, TGUs and snatches (yes i have exactly the same position at the top of a snatch).
The "downside" (if you want to call it that) to this is i don't feel much effort in my muscles (shoulder & triceps) during presses or TGUs.
However when using a horizontal position like thisPic1.jpg i feel my shoulder muscles working like crazy and i have a harder time to keep my elbow/tricep locked out under a heavy weight. With this hand position i can press and TGU less weight than with the diagonal position and the movements are "shakier".

Is there any benefit to switch up positions during different times in my training or should i just go with what feels stronger?

Edit: With the diagonal position i've yet to experience any problems with keeping my wrist straight while with the horizontal position i have to actively work the wrist muscles to keep it straight under a heavy load.
 
Page 45 in S&S has pictures - closer to your second picture than your first. ETK also has guidance on this. The first of your pictures would be more appropriate at the top of a snatch, and second picture more appropriate in the rack awaiting a press.

Your second picture could stand to be a _little_ more angled.

-S-
 
So i should aim for something inbetween those positions? Picture 1 = 45°, Picture 2 = 0°, so 20-25° would be perfect?
All the pictures in ETK look like my second picture (at least they do in my eyes). S&S has a good picture but on the other hand says "Keep the handle parallel to the callus line..." which i can't really relate to, because the only calluses i get on my palms are right below my fingers.

For me the difference is significant. As an example: I introduced the 32Kg for TGUs recently and can comfortably go for 1 or 2 reps per side before i have to switch back to the 24Kg and then continue without problems. This is with the diagonal position.
With the horizontal position i start struggling on the last 2 reps (per side) with just the 24Kg.
Diagonal i can press the 24Kg for 2 nice reps and a third shaky one, while horizontal i can just do 1 rep.
 
@Kettlebelephant, there is such good guidance and pictures to be found in both S&S and ETK, I am reluctant to comment further. You want parallel to your knuckles but also weight on the pressure point at the base of your palm on the pinkie side, which seem like conflicting things but they aren't. It's also tough to judge the fine points based solely on a picture.

The grip is different for ballistics. For presses and getups, the grip should be the one that makes you the stronger.

The proper grind grip is diagonal but a little less diagonal than you would use for ballistics - that's about the best way I can express it in a sentence.

Hope that helps.

-S-
 
Thanks,
Steve Freides said:
You want parallel to your knuckles but also weight on the pressure point at the base of your palm on the pinkie side
Click to expand...
that was helpful.
I also found the description in ETK about the meaty spot on the little finger side which is much better than the callus line thing.

Steve Freides said:
The proper grind grip is diagonal but a little less diagonal than you would use for ballistics - that's about the best way I can express it in a sentence.
Click to expand...
You mean "a little less horizontal than you would use for ballistics" right?
 
Make a fist, look at your palm (palm facing you). Thumb side of kettlebell handle is at 3 o'clock. Horizontal would be the pinkie side at 9 o'clock. For grinds, 8 o'clock; for ballistics, 7 o'clock. Something like that.

Clear as mud?

-S-
 
Sorry Steve, i think i misunderstood what you were saying. When you say ballistics you talk about the snatch and the jerk, right? That makes sense.
When i read ballistics i was thinking about 1H or 2H swings and how the handle position would never be more diagonal than with grinds :D

And the clock example on top of your first tipp is a really foolproof description. Thanks for that.
 
Swings are held in the hooks of the fingers ideally.

-S-
 
I personally find a more angled grip (other than for snatches) ensures a neutral wrist, especially when the kettlebells get heavy. Neutral wrist is the standard, not the exact placement of where the handle crosses the palm. That said, if a different grip helped me press more with a still neutral wrist, I'd play around with it. Having tiny hands means I don't have the luxury or real estate for hook grips. Oh well.
 
Yeah, Martine, we are on the same team for this one. I am quite small and I too just use whatever hand position is most comfortable and allows most control/easiest neutral wrist for what I am doing.
 
Steve Freides said:
Swings are held in the hooks of the fingers ideally.

-S-
Click to expand...
Been playing with this last few days. I have very small hands as mentioned and so for me hook grip puts full weight/force of bell on last segment of fingers, way out on the tips. In large part because I have not been trying to do this, of course my grip is w...w...not strong.

Is is worth trying to develop the strength for a finger tip hook grip or just continue with what I have been doing which is more of a palm grip, and done "correctly" does not seem to pinch at all (although I have never really done any high volume ballistics)?
 
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@GeoffreyLevens, keep experimenting. You might try a different grip with a much lighter bell, just to see if there's something you can do now with a light bell that you might try to learn to do with a heavier one.

For swings, ideally the bell doesn't move much in your hand and, if that's the case, then gripping closer in won't bother your hand. If you think about it, there are really only two variables here - how much the bell moves during your swing, and how tightly you hold it. The bell definitely moves less in the hands of an experienced practitioner because there's no need for it to move more.

-S-
 
Thanks Steve. I have been going back and forth between 16 and 24 kg bells. No problem with the 16 kg but the handle on the 24 kg is enough thicker that it becomes problematic. True the bell does not move hardly at all during swings but the angle of force it is applying to the hand does change constantly. And for me, with the 24 kg, it is quite a trick to keep from having a piece of palm meat pinched under it. I guess I was also thinking of what to do in the future when/if I go to doing snatches just because I really like doing them; even dropping down from racked position after doing bent press the 24 kg becomes a bit of a skin issue. Experimentation is the way I guess to fit individual bodies and I will deal w/ the snatch issue if/when it comes up.
 
Just did full S&S session w/ 24 kg and the closer, more in the palm grip. Amazing how much more power I seem to be able to generate w/ a more secure grip.

Also noticed that I even tend to "gooseneck" my wrist a tiny bit to get the handle seated properly. Did one set after w/ the 16 kg and found that I tend to get much more of a loose, hook grip spontaneously with the thinner handle.
 
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