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Kettlebell Hard labour and kettlebell training

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Andrew Duncan

Andrew Duncan

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To what extent would S&S be compatible with a physical job role? I work as a hard landscaper (paving, retaining walls, etc.) and as such I am not able to meet the requirement of 'feeling fresh' every day purely due the demands of my work. I was able to train every day and ultimately meet the Simple goal whilst studying at uni; now cumulative fatigue has forced me to scale the weight back to 24kg (20, or even 16, some days), with only 2-3 sessions per week.

Am I doing myself a disservice by forcing myself to continue with the S&S program? Given that my work is my absolute priority over S&S (which does not, literally, put 'money in the bank'), I would like to do what I can to improve my performance and efficiency at work, with a strong view to improving resiliency to fatigue and injury. Some older threads on the forum have touched on the topic briefly - the consensus seems to be to focus on recovery (which I already prioritise - 9 hours sleep minimum, an abundance of quality food), and exercise selection should balance out work activities (although I am unsure what exercises would promote true balance). Any advice from people with similar experience?
 
@Andrew Duncan - something I did to ensure I had time to recover and still knock out the swings and get ups was to split the training in half. While not still S&S, I'm still doing just swings and get ups. I do swings one day and the get ups the next. I don't worry so much about doing 100 swings, some days I might only do 60-80 with a heavier weight ot 120-160 with a little lighter weight. Same with get ups, since I'm only doing get ups I might go as high as 16-20. I hope this helps.
 
That's not a bad idea actually. I've been trying to fit my S&S sessions in in the morning when I'm at my freshest, but due to my long-ish commute and early on-site time I'm already waking up before sparrow's. A full S&S session (including warm-up) takes me around 40 mins - breaking it up would make it much more manageable, both from a time and recovery standpoint.

Have you done anything else, say along the lines of mobility work, to balance out work demands? I've seen bridging recommended a few times.
 
Full disclosure: I'm not normal! That said, having done concrete work and also worked as brick layers assist (mix mortar and run full to overflowing wheelbarrows full of it around job site) I would count the job as my main work out and concentrate my home training on easy mobility and stretching work. Probably I'd do the mobility in the morning and stretching in the evening.
 
How long have you been at this demanding job now?

My immediate thought it that is doesn't matter if you do S&S or something else. Whatever program you might be on, if you make a jump from being a student to full time hard physical labor, you're going to have to accept that, at least for a while, you cannot train (or progress, unfortunately) the same way as you did before. You hit the nail on the head, you have to relearn where your recovery point is, and that will be true whether its S&S, barbells, calisthenics, whatever. With time and patience, you'll acclimate, and the eventually the weights will come back to where you think they should be.

Other than that, I'd say:
  • Given that you can't afford to feel beat up the next day, protect your lower back - really listen to your body when you do swings
  • Lightly-loaded TGUs are great mobility exercises in their own right. Do long pauses, extend the range of motion on the leg sweep, do some of the variations putting the elbow on the floor in the kneel, throw in a press here and there, etc. If you only have 20 minutes to spend, there a lot worse ways to spend them.
 
GeoffreyLevens said:
Full disclosure: I'm not normal! That said, having done concrete work and also worked as brick layers assist (mix mortar and run full to overflowing wheelbarrows full of it around job site) I would count the job as my main work out and concentrate my home training on easy mobility and stretching work. Probably I'd do the mobility in the morning and stretching in the evening.
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Having been in this boat before as a feeder tender on large offset presses, I learned to break down the physical labor into exercise-smart movements, posture, even look at what I was doing as set/reps/loading changes.

Is not enough to think of the job as your main source of training, but to do what you can physically as well. It really can give you a better idea of actual work load, pacing, etc, and I believe it improved adaptive response. I became better acclimated to the job faster.
 
I'm not physical labourer, so ignore me if you like.

I'd think that physical labour can lead to imbalance in the body's development, and injuries can come from overstraining muscles not strong enough to handle loads. This would make me think that slow, (not too!) heavy, balanced lifting would be better than S&S which focusses on violent (and tiring if you worked all day!) swings and twisty getups and is all asymmetrical load stuff.

I'd think that something like Power to the People (deadlifts and presses) or some kind of balanced callisthenics like chinups, dips and squats might be doable, not exhausting, yet grant health and strength benefits including anti-injury type strength.
 
Essentially what I'm trying to establish is whether or not the 'feeling fresh every day' caveat of S&S applies only to the S&S training component, or to how I feel from all activities in general. In other words, would the cumulative fatigue I experience from my work (which is, more or less, unavoidable) automatically negate the benefits of S&S? I accept the fact that, at least for the time being, I would be using a lighter weight and only training a couple days per week (i.e. using common sense). Given that my training goals for the time being are to support and balance out my work activities, should I continue with S&S at half-speed? Or would I be better off focusing my intentions elsewhere?
 
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Andrew Duncan said:
Essentially what I'm trying to establish is whether or not the 'feeling fresh every day' caveat of S&S applies only to the S&S training component, or to all activities in general. I accept the fact that, at least for the time being, I will be using a lighter weight and only training a couple days per week (i.e. using common sense). Given that my training goals for the time being are to support and balance out my work activities, should I continue with S&S at half-speed? Or would I be better off focusing my intentions elsewhere?
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I've been at S&S for a few years now and I"m not leaving it for anything. As for feeling fresh, a good long walk achieves this too.

S&S is to develop rugged, real-world strength. If we're talking about feeling fresh, anything that gets your heart rate up for a while will do the trick.

My personal opinion is to never give up on S&S. If you want to scale it back to 2 or 3 times a week fine, but the goal is to do it at least 2 times a week and to do it with the 32kg bell or heavier.
 
Hello Andrew, I've been in the construction business for a long time, sweat and blood are the hallmarks of this type of work. You look young enough to handle a lot of work from your picture.

I never got much out of morning training while doing physical work, too stiff and sore.. I would get home and relax for an hour or so, then coffee up and go hit the weights.
Doing a 4 day split was what worked for me, I maintained lots of muscle while doing this for many years, doing S&S 2-3 times per week should be fine, just listen closely to body signals as @WhatWouldHulkDo said.
 
For what it's worth, just do what you can. But stick with s&s. I work in the railroad industry and can vouch for heavy labour wiping you out. I just did what I could, but didn't force myself to do it. If i felt good and knew it was going to be a long day I'd train in the morning. Sometimes it was after work. Just don't fall into the trap of eating junk to get more calories. Eat good quality food, plenty of protein, creatine, and some bcaa's if you're so inclined.
 
Andrew Duncan said:
Essentially what I'm trying to establish is whether or not the 'feeling fresh every day' caveat of S&S applies only to the S&S training component, or to how I feel from all activities in general.
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My general thought - it applies to life in general, but not to every minute of the day. It's about your baseline.

If you wake up in the morning, and even after a shower and breakfast you still feel beat up from the day before, you've gone too far - your baseline is headed downward. Time to back off.

If you get home from a hard day of work and are able to gut out a little training even though you don't feel 100%, but wake up the next day ready to do it again without feeling worse than yesterday, then the baseline is stable. Carry on.

And I don't think that's unique to S&S at all. That's just about finding the balance, which you have to do regardless of which program you follow.

Don't stress about the program choice. In my mind, program choices start to matter when you want to specialize. Until then, the any program you can execute consistently is the right program.
 
Caleb G. said:
I also have a physically demanding job. I started S&S a few months ago and had to cut it to every other day because of extreme tightness in my hamstrings. It seems to be working well. I do some GTG pull ups and push ups on the alternating days.

It seems like listening to your body is key and trying alternatives that fit with the type of work you're doing.
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Wise words Caleb! If only more people understood this simple concept. Seems to me that doing slightly less than you think you should do is about the right dose to thrive, at least that's what I've noticed over the long term in my training.
 
@Andrew Duncan, you do a lot of moderately heavy lifting. Consider a few heavy deadlifts and presses on the weekends, or after work. Do a few getups as warmups. E.g.:

a few light goblet squats and getups as warmup.

2 sets of 5 presses each side with about a 75% 1RM weight.
5 deadlifts @ 75% 1RM

Read the Daily Dose Deadlift article.

Another option - @CMarker's article (someone please post a link) where you do a big set of swings, then some strength training, then another big set of swings. Some days, only one set of the swings; some days, only the strength training; some days both and some days the whole program.

-S-
 
If I read the hirt program correctly, you could be training for over an hour on at least one day. If you are doing heavy labour, I don't think you want to be thinking about spending an hour training. The hirt is very similar to the 10000 swing challenge
 
I think you have to test the waters to see what you're capable of recovering from.

When I was doing really hard physical jobs I just did some calisthenics, jump rope, heavy bag. Wound up with a wiry, strong build that was well suited to the job (s). IIRC I trained for no more than 40 minutes or so.

IDK if I could have tolerated any really heavy lifting, and if I could have it probably due to being so young at the time. Have to look at the desired goals and push the needle in that direction - you'll know pretty quickly if you're overreaching.
 
North Coast Miller said:
I think you have to test the waters to see what you're capable of recovering from.

When I was doing really hard physical jobs I just did some calisthenics, jump rope, heavy bag. Wound up with a wiry, strong build that was well suited to the job (s). IIRC I trained for no more than 40 minutes or so.

IDK if I could have tolerated any really heavy lifting, and if I could have it probably due to being so young at the time. Have to look at the desired goals and push the needle in that direction - you'll know pretty quickly if you're overreaching.
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Definitely! The difference 30 years makes is huge, even in my 40s I was able to do it all, then by mid to late fifties the game changed.
 
HUNTER1313 said:
If I read the hirt program correctly, you could be training for over an hour on at least one day. If you are doing heavy labour, I don't think you want to be thinking about spending an hour training. The hirt is very similar to the 10000 swing challenge
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Sorry I wasn't clearer in my recommendation. I would do no more than one round of this for someone in the OP's line of work, maximum of a set of swings, a few sets of strength training, and a second set of swings.

JMO.

-S-
 
Keep it simple
Split the swings and get-ups to separate sessions—meaning days.
M-W-F = swings
T-Th-Sat = GUs
You can vary the volume and weight for the swings and get-ups.

This will leave room for the warm-up/prep work etc...

Sleep, hydration, and nutrition have important roles here.

And take a day off when needed.
 
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