Barbell Has anyone ever torn a bicep pulling hook grip?

[westsider19]

I've been hooking for a number of years now, specifically to avoid the possibility of a bicep tear (there are other benefits, obviously). What I want to know is, and I've been searching for this, has there been any instances of a hooker tearing their bicep?

Theoretically, it should be possible. Or as Nassim Taleb says, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

 

[LukeV]

I've been hooking for a number of years now

I bet you have ?

 

[Simply strong]

No idea. I imagine it would happen in weightlifting if at all since all weightlifters use it vs only a few powerlifters.

 

[Steve Freides]

@westsider19, is there evidence that those who use hook grip have a higher incidence of bicep tears?

-S-

 

[westsider19]

@westsider19, is there evidence that those who use hook grip have a higher incidence of bicep tears?

-S-

Are you trying to redirect the Taleb quote or did you mean to say something else? I'm not sure I understand...

I've never seen or heard of any hook gripper tearing their bicep, and when I research it, it's pretty much the standard "use hook grip to eliminate bicep tears." My question is, does it totally eliminate the risk?

We also might not have enough evidence yet...hook grip has only recently taken off in powerlifting in recent years. Olympic lifting I think should be discounted since the weights are not of the same magnitude.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

I don't think the risk is ever truly 'eliminated' but if you can't find any evidence of it happening, then it's probably a sound strategy. It certainly makes sense in theory.

I'm just trying to work out whether you're especially wary of tearing a bicep or if you're looking for an excuse to ditch the hook grip. In either case I don't blame you!

Unfortunately for me, the hook grip is non-negotiable in Oly lifting (if you want to be any good at it at all) so I'm stuck with it.

 

[Steve Freides]

Are you trying to redirect the Taleb quote or did you mean to say something else? I'm not sure I understand...

I'm just trying to understand the thread - perhaps I need to reread from the beginning.

-S-

 

[Hardartery]

Anything is possible, so you could still tear a bicep if you employ enough technique and skill. But if you think about the mechanics, it's pretty hard to maintain an effective hook if you fire the biceps during the pull, it would de-tension the thumb and you'd lose the grip. That said, biceps tears during a DL with any grip is a failure of technique. When the grip starts to slide the automatic motion is to shorten the lever and try to roll the bar back up in the hand. It doesn't and can't actually work, but it's what your body does naturally. ***Disclaimer - it might, maybe, remote possibility, give you a tiny fraction of time before grip fail which might, maybe, remote possibility, give you enough time to complete the lift. But it would have to be REALLY close. *** It's a sign that you are doing it in training, when you should be drilling some technique aspects like eliminating biceps from the pull.

 

[westsider19]

I'm just trying to understand the thread - perhaps I need to reread from the beginning.

-S-

I'm sorry, here's the background.

When I had a groin injury a few years ago, I had to take some time off. When I was restarting, I figured that would be a good time to learn hook grip, since I was starting up from next to nothing. I have always been scared of a bicep tear, even though I was only in the 400s before my groin injury. Every bicep tear I've seen has been with at least 600, but I told myself I wanted to get to that level anyway, so I used my recovery to focus on hook grip. This was 2018...from my point of view, hook grip was rare for powerlifters, but I believe people like Yury Belkin and Cailer Woolam helped popularize it, and now it is not uncommon in the sport.

My number one motivation for hook grip was to eliminate the possibility of a bicep tear. The other benefits (stronger grip and symmetry) were nice bonuses. Fast forward to today, I am quite happy with my decision to learn it. I'm much stronger now, and most importantly, I can pull without fear of tearing it. Mentally, it's been a big boost for me.

But after recently witnessing a bicep tear in person, I began wondering...is it possible this could happen with hook grip? To date, I cannot find one instance of this. Hook grip is more or less marketed as a complete protection against this. While I believe that it can protect me > 99% of the time, I still believe there is some residual risk, even if I cannot find one hook gripper who suffered this injury.

 

[westsider19]

Anything is possible, so you could still tear a bicep if you employ enough technique and skill. But if you think about the mechanics, it's pretty hard to maintain an effective hook if you fire the biceps during the pull, it would de-tension the thumb and you'd lose the grip. That said, biceps tears during a DL with any grip is a failure of technique. When the grip starts to slide the automatic motion is to shorten the lever and try to roll the bar back up in the hand. It doesn't and can't actually work, but it's what your body does naturally. ***Disclaimer - it might, maybe, remote possibility, give you a tiny fraction of time before grip fail which might, maybe, remote possibility, give you enough time to complete the lift. But it would have to be REALLY close. *** It's a sign that you are doing it in training, when you should be drilling some technique aspects like eliminating biceps from the pull.

Yes, I do believe it is possible. And if I could find an example, I would consider it to be a rare exception to the rule.

 

[Steve Freides]

@westsider19, my understanding of biceps tears in deadlifting is that bending at the elbow is the cause and not anything related to grip. If that's less likely when you use hook grip, that's great. It bothered my right thumb on both times I gave it a serious run, and in a way that bothered my piano and organ playing, and that's not something I can live with. It's also worth noting that, in my case, my grip is not my weak point so I'm not feeling the need for a different grip.

-S-