Have you tried a negative only, slow rep, body weight protocol for strength gains and fat loss?

ArtSLieberman

First Post
I've been doing a workout for about 4 weeks which includes pushups, pullups, squats, and shoulder pushups. I do slow reps (10 count), lowering my weight then help myself back into position for the next rep. No concentric push.

1 set per exercise.
1 workout per week.

I realize that one of the challenges is to get into position quickly for each rep to keep rest between each rep at a minimum.

Have you done this? Ideas on how to keep it effective? Maybe there are more challenges than what I think?
 

bluejeff

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello,
Two questions come to mind: Is there a particular reason you are only training the eccentric portion of those movements? And: is there a reason you are only doing it one time per week? There are lots of factors to consider if strength gains and fat loss are your goals.
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
Slow vs Fast Eccentrics

Below is information on the training effect of Slow Vs Fast Eccentrics; Fast defined as the Eccentric Repetition being performed in 1 second.

Short-term high- vs. low-velocity isokinetic lengthening training results in greater hypertrophy of the elbow flexors in young men
https://www.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/japplphysiol.01027.2004

...higher velocity (3.66 rad/s) isokinetic lengthening contractions are associated with greater muscular hypertrophy than slower (0.35 rad/s) velocity lengthening contractions.

We observed, despite a >10-fold lower mean torque-time integral (Fig. 6), a greater degree of hypertrophy (Fig. 3) with a training protocol that involved only high velocity lengthening contractions.

Fiber type-specific changes after eccentric training
https://www.patreon.com/posts/fiber-type-after-28196633

Not every type of eccentric training causes preferential increases in type II muscle fiber area, and some types actually cause type I muscle fiber area to increase more!

Preferential type I muscle fiber hypertrophy


...when slow eccentric phases are used during normal strength training, this causes increased type I muscle fiber size, ...

Slowing down an eccentric does not enhancement or recruitment so it is not "eccentric overload". It only increases time under tension.

Research shows the slow negatives do not elicit the most effective response.


Dan Osborne found that with eccentrics/negatives is ...

1) "...greater following high rather than slow velocity eccentric actions (29)."

2) "...as far as strength was concerned, fast eccentric actions were superior."

3) "...growth of type IIa and IIx fibres was greater with fast eccentric actions."

Negatives: You're Doing Them Wrong
https://www.t-nation.com/training/ne...ing-them-wrong

As per Chris Thibaudeau...

1) ..."going slower will not improve the stimulatory affect of the eccentric. ...it won't recruit and stimulate more fast-twitch fibers."

2) "The Essential Points: Focus on heavy and controlled, not on moderate weights lowered slowly."

I realize that one of the challenges is to get into position quickly for each rep to keep rest between each rep at a minimum.
Cluster Set Training

A pause between repetitions in a set turns it into Cluster Set Training. Cluster Set elicit a different training effect that a set of continuous, non-stop repetitions. Essentially, they are like tools used for different jobs. The objective determines which tool to us.

Fat Loss
As you may know, diet is the key to fat/weight loss. Exercise is secondary.
 
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ArtSLieberman

First Post
Thanks. That was a very thorough response.

Why am I only training the negative? It's something I read about in a book (The Calorie Myth). But the theory is this... Overload the negative with more resistance than you can handle on the concentric phase of the rep. This will elicit gains more quickly and deeply.

Once a week. Plenty of time for recovery.
 

Erik Hournou

Level 6 Valued Member
yeah but you still need to do those concentrics, negatives will only improve your concentric strength to an extent, besides if you are able to do the concentric portion with the same weight you're not really overloading the negative, to do that you must use a weight you can not do the concentric portion with.
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
The Calorie Myth
It Is Not A Myth

Whoever said calories count, wasn't kidding.

Decreasing calorie intake is the key to weight loss.

That was demonstrated with...

The Twinkie Diet

Mark Haub, MS Nutrition demonstrated to his Kansas University Students that losing weight is primarily about calories. Haub lost 27 lb in 3 months consuming a low calorie junk food diet; Twinkies, cookies, Doritos.

Haub said the an unexpected benefit was that his Blood Lipid Profile improved; losing 27 lbs accounted for that.

Haub went on to state, he does not recommend The Twinkie Diet or anything like it.

Low Glycemic/Insulin Index Foods

A secondary component is consuming Low Glycemic/Insulin Index Foods. This decreases blood sugar, which decreases insulin production.

As nutritionist, Jay Robb stated, "Insulin is a fat maker...

Chronic insulin elevation increases fat storage along with shutting down the fat burning process.

Insulin Resistance

Insulin Resistant individual do not process carbohydrate well. High carbohydrate intake leads to weight gain, primarily fat gain.

Carbohydrates

For Insulin Resistant individual and a good rule for most, consuming vegetables of color is the way to go. They are low in carbohydrates, low in calories and high in fiber.

This maintains low insulin levels and decreases calorie intake.

Overload the negative with more resistance than you can handle on the concentric phase of the rep. T
Eccentric Strength Training

There a place for it in training.

You can perform an Eccentric Load with approximately 20% more than you can perform a Concentric Contraction.

Eccentrics, as well as Isometric Holds, require less energy than a Concentric Contraction.

As you know, Eccentrics create more trauma and require longer recovery time.

This will elicit gains more quickly and deeply.
Gain More Quickly and Deepy?

Eccentric contributed to an increase in strength and muscle mass.

They are an effective method of training, in conjunction with Concentric Contractions, as well as Isometric Holds.

They are a good adjunctive method of training. They may slightly elicit gains, dependent on how a training program is written/executes. "Slightly" was the key word in the previous sentence.
 

ArtSLieberman

First Post
besides if you are able to do the concentric portion with the same weight you're not really overloading the negative, to do that you must use a weight you can not do the concentric portion with.
So that's the question. If I am doing a negative only workout, can I just follow a progression protocol like in Convict Conditioning? Using 10 count/second negatives, how many reps before I jump to a new progression?
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
Convict Conditioning
Convict Conditioning

I had to look this up to see what it is; which is body weight exercises.

I am constantly amazed at how individual re-brand something as their own.

10 count/second negatives, how many reps before I jump to a new progression
Research Above

As the research that I posted above notes, Fast Eccentrics (around one second lowering) work the Fast Type IIa and "Super" Fast Type IIb/x Muscle Fiber.

The Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber generate the most increase in muscular size and strength.

Fast Eccentrics

A Fast Eccentric increases the load placed on the muscles; which innervates the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber.

The faster an object or body is lowered the more loading there is on the muscles; Force = Mass X Acceleration.

As someone once said, "Jumping out of a 5 story building won't kill you. It's the sudden stop (the amount of force) you need to worry about."

A Slow Eccentric for repetition higher than 5 tend to work the smaller Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber to a greater degree than the Fast Twitch.

With that said, performing Slow Eccentrics does provides a training benefit.

Give a try and see how it works.
 
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