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Bodyweight Heavy Guy Calisthenics

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I can sort of relate.
I spent the 1990's in gyms pushing myself to Always get stronger and I did. Got up to 225 lbs, not all muscle.
Beginning 2000 I switched to calisthenics in the form of a Navy Seal fitness book I got from the library.
In the fall of 2000 I opened my karate school, and I was down to 200 lbs.
My shoulders and elbows were not aching any more, and I felt great.
Lots of walking, basic calisthenics exercises for low to moderate reps and lots of sets.
And I got off the needing major protein Daily!
What works for me now is intermittent fasting.

Don't give up the Kettlebells if you got them. You're gonna want them in a year or two.

Al
 
@Steve Freides - I do practice being hungry a lot. While many may scoff at the notion of body types, I find that I am of the endomorphic type. I build muscle and fat easily, and I can't simply cut lots of calories to lose weight (my body is smarter than that). I am getting progress here but it is slow due to having to coax my body to let go of the fat. I do practice IF and their are days I just don't feel like eating until much later in the day.

@Spencer907 - I suggest checking up on articles that specify endomorph body types. I'm finding the guidance here on training and nutrition spot on. Not just WHAT you eat but how much and why. I suggest Al Kavaldo for any beginner training needs with calisthenics. He has a kick-a#@ phone app with wonderful training stuff that you can own for life for $7.99 and it gets updated pretty regularly. I have seen content added 2-3 times since I've owned the app. If you're big, however, I am going to suggest utilizing the Fighter Pull-Up Program for more than just pull-ups. I turned that same set / rep scheme into a full body progression program so that I can increase the volume of my calisthenics in a way that doesn't just spin my wheels. Overall, my joints and flexibility is just amazing now, and I've not really lost strength in my barbell lifts (even though it has been a while since I have tried any).


@Joeyboy - Your experience is distinctly different. I always see people lose tons of weight because they do not have much in the way of muscle mass. Their weight loss becomes drastic when they begin to regain that muscle mass.

@DaveMikk - My goals and reasons for losing weight has always existed. These include: getting to about 185lbs, getting off my CPAP (i.e. hopefully eliminate my sleep apnea), look better naked, and just have health enough to defy death for a lot longer.


Seems to conversation has shifted from how to train calisthenics as a heavier individual to how to lose weight. I essentially eat in a very healthy manner. My wife is diabetic so she tends to cook that way to help her blood sugar and I prefer how I feel when eating healthy.

The real goal of this thread was to see if anyone knew how some of the heavier calisthenics practitioners trained and advanced through more difficult progressions. I wouldn't mind remaining around 200lbs or so if I could more easily move my own body. So progressing my strength and even flexibility to do some of the more advanced movements would be my aim. I am, however, utilizing the Fighter Pull-Up Program as I outlined for Spencer above to progress with lower reps.
 
@JohnDoeman I have a large frame and am not The Biggest Loser type person in way of body build. Most people you see in commercials are extreme. They are really large, fat, or really flabby. I was neither.

Yes, I am always reaching. Insanity was just a suggestion. It will sure get your aerobic level up, if that is part of your plan.
 
"The naked warrior" contains everything you need to become excellent and pistols and one armed pushups, even at 250 pounds. Mastering the latter will also do wonders for your flexibility and balance. Of course, because of you being a big guy, your joints may need a bit more time to adapt to squatting one legged. The recipe for becoming good at it remains the same, though -- gradually increasing the difficulties/range of motion towards rock bottom pistols, then practicing the full pistols frequently.
 
@Pantrolyx - I have been finding out that the Pistol is a much harder journey when you're heavy. Mainly, I cannot get my gut out of the way to lean forward enough for balance. I really do not want to use a counter weight although it may come to that. Right now I can really do a good Pistol down to about a 12" box, only just lightly touching it before coming back up. The left leg seems to be more difficult but I'm hearing that's normal and the flexibility of my instep is getting way better (my leg is able to lean forward more to keep my weight over my mid-foot).

I am finding that this Fighter Pull-Up Program is the perfect template for heavy guys. I am on the 3rd week or block and I am feeling great and haven't lost the momentum.
 
There’s videos of Kali Muscle weighing in at 280lbs doing muscle-ups and other heavyweight doing pull-ups so may have to work a little harder but it’s definitely possible
 
@Pantrolyx - I have been finding out that the Pistol is a much harder journey when you're heavy. Mainly, I cannot get my gut out of the way to lean forward enough for balance. I really do not want to use a counter weight although it may come to that. Right now I can really do a good Pistol down to about a 12" box, only just lightly touching it before coming back up. The left leg seems to be more difficult but I'm hearing that's normal and the flexibility of my instep is getting way better (my leg is able to lean forward more to keep my weight over my mid-foot).

I am finding that this Fighter Pull-Up Program is the perfect template for heavy guys. I am on the 3rd week or block and I am feeling great and haven't lost the momentum.

Yes, the Journey is surely harder/slower when you are heavy,but you will surely get there anyhow. :) Gradually increasing the range of motion is a good solution. easing the impact by holding on to rings, a TRX or whatever may be another. I may not be a "real" big guy, but I can do like 30 reps with full debth at 92 kilos on a good day.
 
@Pantrolyx - I have been finding out that the Pistol is a much harder journey when you're heavy. Mainly, I cannot get my gut out of the way to lean forward enough for balance. I really do not want to use a counter weight although it may come to that. Right now I can really do a good Pistol down to about a 12" box, only just lightly touching it before coming back up. The left leg seems to be more difficult but I'm hearing that's normal and the flexibility of my instep is getting way better (my leg is able to lean forward more to keep my weight over my mid-foot).

I am finding that this Fighter Pull-Up Program is the perfect template for heavy guys. I am on the 3rd week or block and I am feeling great and haven't lost the momentum.

try paying more dues on box pistols than you think you need.

the counterweight allows you to fire up your hamstrings and glutes, which is very important to learn how to do. no shame in using a counterweight or holding on to a band, TRX, or door handle..

I achieved the pistol on left and right from getting really good at box pistols. I'm not heavy but also wasn't very strong

GTG with Box pistols + the FPP is a great idea.
 
One more thing. Thinking you are not able to lose weight is very much a first-world problem. Around the world, millions of people go hungry every day.

I don't mean to be harsh, but it is something I think about. Eating less is like not walking in front of a bus - in both cases, you're not doing something that's bad for you.

Just my opinion, and your mileage may vary.

-S-
I agree. Our bodies can tolerate overeating and also eating very little. I think how it works is that as long as we're getting the four food groups in on most days, we aren't going to die. I've gone without food for a week on two occasions due to a stomach flu. I drank something like Gatorade and in fact gained a pound!

Regarding eating less, I think our systems kind of adjust to having to overeat and at first they rebel a bit when we eat less, but then they adjust to eating less and they're fine.

My natural weight without watching how much I eat is 100kg, and so long as this is a muscular 100kg, I'm not only strong and fit, but heavy enough to have advantages at sports like judo and I think the weight helps a bit for weight lifting and for S&S.

I'm deadlifting 370lbs now by the way, and it doesn't even feel hard. I'm inching up the weight slowly though just to be on the safe side.
 
Hello,

I think that when related to calisthenics, "the lighter you are, the better" (pound for pound, when considering the BMI). For instance, I found the OA Chin up easier when I run intermittent fasting a few days. During these days, I'll lose about 2kg. However, I maintain muscle mass because I keep training.

As @Kozushi wisely said, strongly built guys are usually better at weightlifting than lighter guy, who are usually better at moving their body (pound for pound, a gymnast is extremely strong for instance).

That being said, it does not prevent an heavy guy doing calisthenics. It just might take longer to strengthen the joints. In this respect, I firstly would train the "Trifecta" and the progression which lead to it (L-Sit, Back Bridge, twist hold). I'd add splits (front and side) and deep squats.

Then, at least at the beginning, higher rep range is supposed to build some strength, and strengthen joints in the meanwhile. In this respect, Convict Conditioning from P. Wade has some good progressions, especially regarding pistols and OAP.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

I think that when related to calisthenics, "the lighter you are, the better" (pound for pound, when considering the BMI). For instance, I found the OA Chin up easier when I run intermittent fasting a few days. During these days, I'll lose about 2kg. However, I maintain muscle mass because I keep training.

As @Kozushi wisely said, strongly built guys are usually better at weightlifting than lighter guy, who are usually better at moving their body (pound for pound, a gymnast is extremely strong for instance).

That being said, it does not prevent an heavy guy doing calisthenics. It just might take longer to strengthen the joints. In this respect, I firstly would train the "Trifecta" and the progression which lead to it (L-Sit, Back Bridge, twist hold). I'd add splits (front and side) and deep squats.

Then, at least at the beginning, higher rep range is supposed to build some strength, and strengthen joints in the meanwhile. In this respect, Convict Conditioning from P. Wade has some good progressions, especially regarding pistols and OAP.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Heavier guys are lifting more weight when doing callisthenics, which makes them stronger than smaller guys doing the same moves.
 
Hello,

Heavier guys are lifting more weight when doing callisthenics, which makes them stronger than smaller guys doing the same moves.
I think we have to do a slight nuance.

I totally agree with you with this statement. A 100kg guy who performs a pull up will lift more than a guy who only weighs 60. There is no doubt about that. However, on the medium term, or even short term, the light guy will easily perform higher rep set than the heavier guy.

So, if we consider a maximal pull up test in 5 minutes. I am pretty sure the light guy will perform more moves than the heavier one because the latter will have to rest a little bit more. Then, in this case, when we consider the time under tension, the line between "who is the strongest" gets thiner. What do you think ?

Plus, considering "maximal strength" using bodyweight only, we can consider pretty "elusive move" such as one arm chin up. The heaviest guy I know who performs it weighs a bit less than 80. Otherwise - meaning heavier - it becomes extremely tough.

Nonetheless, I do not want to debate "who is the strongest between the light guy or heavy guy ?" or "is it better to train calisthenics or lifting weights ?" IMO, the most important is being "functional" in everyday life (a good ratio between mobility (so no stiffness !), flexibility, strength, power and endurance). Basically, I prefer being a gymnast than a strongman ;)

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
So, if we consider a maximal pull up test in 5 minutes. I am pretty sure the light guy will perform more moves than the heavier one because the latter will have to rest a little bit more. Then, in this case, when we consider the time under tension, the line between "who is the strongest" gets thiner. What do you think ?

I think you still have to give the heavier guy points for being "stronger", but I think your real question is, "who is more useful" - which is obviously situation-dependent.

If the task is to climb in and out of a high window as many times as possible in 5 minutes (maybe scaling a tall building from the outside as quickly as possible), light guy is more useful.

If the task is to climb into a high window once, and subdue an attacker once you get up there, all else being equal my money is on heavier guy.

If the task is to climb into that high window once with a 30k pack on your back... tough call, but my experience is that lighter guy has the edge. I'm a heavy guy, and at least right now I have a rough time with weighted pull ups.

We want to be strong first... but I'd completely agree that, in a given situation, nobody cares how strong you are if you're not useful.
 
Hello,


I think we have to do a slight nuance.

I totally agree with you with this statement. A 100kg guy who performs a pull up will lift more than a guy who only weighs 60. There is no doubt about that. However, on the medium term, or even short term, the light guy will easily perform higher rep set than the heavier guy.

So, if we consider a maximal pull up test in 5 minutes. I am pretty sure the light guy will perform more moves than the heavier one because the latter will have to rest a little bit more. Then, in this case, when we consider the time under tension, the line between "who is the strongest" gets thiner. What do you think ?

Plus, considering "maximal strength" using bodyweight only, we can consider pretty "elusive move" such as one arm chin up. The heaviest guy I know who performs it weighs a bit less than 80. Otherwise - meaning heavier - it becomes extremely tough.

Nonetheless, I do not want to debate "who is the strongest between the light guy or heavy guy ?" or "is it better to train calisthenics or lifting weights ?" IMO, the most important is being "functional" in everyday life (a good ratio between mobility (so no stiffness !), flexibility, strength, power and endurance). Basically, I prefer being a gymnast than a strongman ;)

Kind regards,

Pet'
You are right. It is one thing for me to be able to pick up and move other things, and another thing for me to be able to pick up and move myself. If we take things to extremes for the sake of clarity of discussion, the big fat strong guy who can pick up a refrigerator all by himself but can't climb out of his burning house fast enough dies, whereas the light mobile guy escapes handily and quickly.

This brings me back yet again to the genius of Pavel's S&S program - the TGU is a weighted callisthenic move - you have to move your own body around under pressure. So, S&S covers the conundrum of bodyweight mastery training (to a decent degree).

I'm finding a degree of crossover between callisthenics and free weights. Because of the 370lbs deadlifts I'm doing, I can nearly achieve a lever (is this the right word - making the body all horizontal?) on the chinup bar, and I also think doing the gymnastics ring dips does something for my deadlifting by working complementary muscles.

I think callisthenics are extremely important and can be done without any free wight lifting at all to excellent effect. My lifelong favourite has been walking for distance and endurance, and otherwise I've been a fan of either chinups or dips at different times over the years. Right now I'm preferring dips considering that I'm doing enough pulling with swings and deadlifts.

In any case, Pet, you are right. I agree with you.
 
@Kozushi & @pet' - Comparing a pull-up for a guy at 250lbs to someone at 150lbs is in no way the same. It is tough to describe but I have experienced both extremes and they are in no way the same. I was 155lbs when I graduated boot camp in the Marine Corps and pull-ups were about as easy as doing push-ups. I think no matter what one perceives as difficult or easy, the muscular differences doing a pull-up will differ greatly depending on the weight involved. At 155lbs pull-ups turned into an endurance exercise after a certain time-period. At 250lbs pull-ups will always be a strength-endurance exercise. I agree that for any calisthenics exercise to become easier fastest would be to lose weight.

I guess I have had plenty of experience in the weight-room, doing Strongman competitions, powerlifting, being a Marine, and many other facets of fitness. I am finding the single best and most effective form of strength training is calisthenics no matter how heavy or light and it is much much harder than weightlifting by far. The bonus is that you will still become plenty strong to pull heavy deadlifts, squat a lot, bench a lot...etc (if the need arises) but your joints will be far stronger and healthier in the long-run. Their is a point of diminishing returns with chasing more weight on the bar if you are not out for competition.

You all will obviously lift and train however you feel is best for you. I was 30 when I stopped Strongman and my body felt like it was 60 (and I had only really competed for like 3 years!). I've only recently truly regained my health and honestly I feel stronger than I ever have in Strongman or powerlifting. I am also starting to get more aesthetically pleasing to the eye so that is also a bonus.

I am on the last week of my modified Fighter Pull-Up Program where I added in low box pistols (12" box), headstand presses, and hanging leg raises before I switch to a few new movements, progress to harder ones, and restart. It is a great system and I highly recommend it to anyone regardless of size!
 
@Kozushi & @pet' - Comparing a pull-up for a guy at 250lbs to someone at 150lbs is in no way the same. It is tough to describe but I have experienced both extremes and they are in no way the same. I was 155lbs when I graduated boot camp in the Marine Corps and pull-ups were about as easy as doing push-ups. I think no matter what one perceives as difficult or easy, the muscular differences doing a pull-up will differ greatly depending on the weight involved. At 155lbs pull-ups turned into an endurance exercise after a certain time-period. At 250lbs pull-ups will always be a strength-endurance exercise. I agree that for any calisthenics exercise to become easier fastest would be to lose weight.

I guess I have had plenty of experience in the weight-room, doing Strongman competitions, powerlifting, being a Marine, and many other facets of fitness. I am finding the single best and most effective form of strength training is calisthenics no matter how heavy or light and it is much much harder than weightlifting by far. The bonus is that you will still become plenty strong to pull heavy deadlifts, squat a lot, bench a lot...etc (if the need arises) but your joints will be far stronger and healthier in the long-run. Their is a point of diminishing returns with chasing more weight on the bar if you are not out for competition.

You all will obviously lift and train however you feel is best for you. I was 30 when I stopped Strongman and my body felt like it was 60 (and I had only really competed for like 3 years!). I've only recently truly regained my health and honestly I feel stronger than I ever have in Strongman or powerlifting. I am also starting to get more aesthetically pleasing to the eye so that is also a bonus.

I am on the last week of my modified Fighter Pull-Up Program where I added in low box pistols (12" box), headstand presses, and hanging leg raises before I switch to a few new movements, progress to harder ones, and restart. It is a great system and I highly recommend it to anyone regardless of size!
I think I agree with you. My staple strength training for my whole life until starting S&S 3 years ago was callisthenics, especially walking, chinups and dips. This was plenty good enough for me to have the strength to perform very well in judo competitions through a period of 6 years during which I competed quite frequently. As we all know, judo demands a great deal of strength and power let alone many other athletic attributes.

My one critique of callisthenics is that it is hard to target the lower back, and I often had lower back pain due to the weaknesses there, and once it was critical and severe and crippled me for 5 weeks. This problem has been erased completely through kettlebell swings and deadlifts after starting to follow Pavel's systems and philosophies. I do think though that outside the "big pull" of deadlifts, swings or similar, free weights are not needed, only callisthenic exercises are. However, I think adding free weight training onto callisthenics hits some different muscles, and many of the same muscles but in different ways, and so I can't persuade myself to stop using free weights. But I do think that callisthenics are much more necessary than free weights. Why? Because when you do callisthenic exercises you are engaging, generally speaking, a lot more muscles and parts of your body. Compare pushups and the free weight equivalent bench press. Doing pushups your whole body is tensed up, but doing the bench press while there is of course some engagement everywhere it's focused almost completely on your chest and arms. Dips engage lots of your body as do chinups. I've also noticed my pressing weight go up mainly by doing dips instead of presses! The dips are exercising more body parts and so my whole body can tense up more which gives me more solidity to handle presses. Full body tension is of course one of Pavel's key principles, and I feel this more naturally doing callisthenics than with free weights, because callisthenics engage more of your body at the same time it seems.
Weighted callisthenics are also good if not necessary, although the TGU is a good example of a weighted callisthenic exercise where the weight probably IS necessary to make it worthwhile for most people. Like you said, I think I'm heavy enough at 220 lbs to get all I need callisthenically out of my own bodyweight.
Now, having said all that, deadlifts are wonderful because of the amount of weight I can stack onto them. They are a wonderful full body exercise that I don't think can be matched with callisthenics.

All in all, my philosophy is that both callisthenics and free weights trained together is optimal as each has its own benefits impossible to replicate with the other, and both are practical strength for different reasons, but if one or the other needs emphasis I'd choose callisthenics as more of your body is getting the workout in the same amount of time as more of your body is engaged in the callisthenic exercises. This is why it makes us look aesthetically pleasing, since our inner human shape, the form given us by God with our musculature, emerges by doing full body engaging strength training. (Again, the deadlift engages the whole body too in its own way, and certain other free weight lifts come close, so I don't want to leave this fact out!)
 
...and I am literally selling off my gym so that I am only doing calisthenics

Don't do it, Buddy!
To quote Mr. Tsatsouline in the book SIMPLE & SINISTER (page 6): "you never really own a kettlebell. You merely look after it for the next generation"

Just like you my true love is calisthenics BUT lifting Iron has it's place. You will get great results when cycling Calisthenics with Kettlebells and/or Barbell.

Check out the book GET STRONG written by the Kavadlo Brothers. Well written and with good progressions. Cycling GET STRONG with S&S / PTTP will give you NEXT GEN GAINZ
(y);)

10-4 out
/Martin Joe
 
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My one critique of callisthenics is that it is hard to target the lower back, and I often had lower back pain due to the weaknesses there

Strength issue og lack of mobility ?

IMO most lack mobility/flexibility there due to heavy deadlifting / heavy KB swings AND not combining those exercises with proper mobility training.

Kind regards
Martin Joe
 
Strength issue og lack of mobility ?

IMO most lack mobility/flexibility there due to heavy deadlifting / heavy KB swings AND not combining those exercises with proper mobility training.

Kind regards
Martin Joe
Okay, but it's one thing I'm deathly afraid of. What mobility callisthenics can one do to keep the lower back in good condition?
 
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