Other/Mixed Help me decide

[BJJ Shawn]

Hello All,

I’m 13 weeks from being Over the Hill and the big 4-0, and I just wrapped up a cycle of Kettlebell Burn Extreme Revised with moderate results. I lost a fair amount of fat (8-10 lbs overall, not sure how much is actual fat) but I still have a lot of fat to go to hit my goal and there’s nothing like being a fat mess when turning 40 to motivate you.

I have been very consistent the last couple years, but have been bouncing between strength, power, hypertrophy, and cutting phases having hit timed simple a year ago and using mostly barbells since then (but did bottoms up Olympic followed by kettlebell burn extreme so only kettlebells the last 2 months).

I’m looking for my next program, and I miss barbells but I’m also enjoying using kettlebells again and I have pairs up to 24kg and a single 32kg.

My goals are to lose another 10lbs of fat and hit a bodyweight OHP, 1.5x BW bench press, 1.75 BW squat, and 2x bodyweight deadlift. I’m probably within a peak of all of my strength goals IF I also lose 10 lbs of fat and can maintain my strength. Is that doable? Last time I tried I hit 140 for 3 on OHP, 210 x 3 on bench press, 270 x 3 on squat, and 315 for 3 on deadlift. I was about 182 when I hit those, I’m 175 lbs now, and my goal weight is 165 so I’m not far off on any of them.

I have been thinking of doing Faleev 5x5, but how to incorporate OHP? It fits a lot of my goals and has a peaking protocol built in. Or maybe Kettlebell Strong with Presses to hit the pressing goal, or maybe RMF with jerks to hit the weight goal. Or maybe…?

I really enjoy daily practice and have found that 3x per week really doesn’t work well for me to either gain muscle OR lose fat since I’m not the most diligent with my diet. 5-6 days a week seems to be more my style. Unfortunately, I’m not doing BJJ anymore (wife is still worried about COVID with 2 toddlers in the house) so all my workouts come from my morning practice.

What would you recommend? Any of the chosen programs, or something else?

 

[3letterslong]

I don't have any advice for you, just wanted to congratulate you on being so close to your goals. Those are already accomplishments and you're about to nail them out of the park!

 

[mikhael]

RELOAD by Fabio.

 

[Conor]

Maybe a Built Strong protocol? Fabio designed those for multiple lifts and everything I’ve read speaks highly of them.

 

[william bad butt]

Congrats on turning 40!

This is very high level, strategy, advice... Maybe a "park bench" easy barbell program to build your base so you can focus on nutrition and sleep to get your weight in order? Then afterwards, get off the diet for 1-2 months and do a peaking plan to get big numbers?

Regards,

Eric

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Congrats on turning 40!

This is very high level, strategy, advice... Maybe a "park bench" easy barbell program to build your base so you can focus on nutrition and sleep to get your weight in order? Then afterwards, get off the diet for 1-2 months and do a peaking plan to get big numbers?

Regards,

Eric

Thanks, that was one path I had thought about (which is why I did Kettlebell Burn Extreme first) but my question is how do powerlifters or weightlifters simultaneously cut for a meet while peaking? I'm only looking at 10 lbs in 3 months, so it seemed pretty minor in the overall picture, but I could be wrong since I've usually only cut for BJJ meets where conditioning is much more important than strength so it was a non-factor.

 

[bluejeff]

Thanks, that was one path I had thought about (which is why I did Kettlebell Burn Extreme first) but my question is how do powerlifters or weightlifters simultaneously cut for a meet while peaking? I'm only looking at 10 lbs in 3 months, so it seemed pretty minor in the overall picture, but I could be wrong since I've usually only cut for BJJ meets where conditioning is much more important than strength so it was a non-factor.

I’m curious what others will say, but I am wondering about low rep/high weight work here. You can probably get away with more of a calorie deficit if you aren’t doing very high volume and conditioning isn’t a primary goal. I’m thinks almost easy strength style: as in 2-3 sets of 2-3 reps 2-3 days a week, but at an appropriately higher intensity. I’m sure there’s some room for adjustment there though. The only thing I’m not sure about is how much muscle mass you will maintain/gain/lose.

 

[watchnerd]

Thanks, that was one path I had thought about (which is why I did Kettlebell Burn Extreme first) but my question is how do powerlifters or weightlifters simultaneously cut for a meet while peaking?

Well, first off all, to get something out there:

The cut weightlifters do for a competition is not done in a way that is optimal for health or sustainable for long term fat loss.

And you're running right along the edge of negatively impacting performance.

And you're lifting a *lot* less in the last week (or two) before the meet.

A lot of what you do in the last few weeks is manipulating water, salt, and food to get a specific result at weigh-in, and then eating / rehydrating / re-electrolyting in the gap between weigh-in and your competition (<2 hrs, by rules).

Here is some more info:

Cutting Bodyweight for Weightlifting without Fatigue & Performance Loss

Cutting body weight for weightlifting and other sports. How to cut weight safely and effectively without hurting strength and performance.

www.catalystathletics.com

 

[william bad butt]

how do powerlifters or weightlifters simultaneously cut for a meet while peaking?

I think most just do a water cut (temporarily weight loss). It is easy to lose 5-10 lb a few days before a meet, and then gain it back in the night before the meet. Water cut.

I assume you want a "real" and sustainable and healthy weight loss. At 240lb I'm not the most qualified to answer this. But usually when I want to lose weight I eat less carbs and up my protein, while maintaining 30% of my calories from Fats. I usually try and target 1 to 2 lb per week (Week #1 I usually lose a lot while my body acclimates to nutrition change). Getting stronger while losing weight is very tough!

 

[watchnerd]

I think most just do a water cut (temporarily weight loss). It is easy to lose 5-10 lb a few days before a meet, and then gain it back in the night before the meet. Water cut.

I had a 3.7 kg difference from my weigh-in to what I weighed after my last lift, 3 hours later.

I was right under the weight limit on the scale, and over it by the time I was competing (being over the weight limit is actually the goal).

As soon as I got off the scale, I drank 3 liters of full sugar Powerade, ate 3 Snickers bars, and 2 tablespoons of salt.

During the warm up I drank 1 more liter of Powerade.

 

[watchnerd]

I think most just do a water cut (temporarily weight loss). It is easy to lose 5-10 lb a few days before a meet, and then gain it back in the night before the meet. Water cut.

As a weird bit of trivia, many (most? all?) PL federations have a much longer weigh-in vs competition window than weightlifting.

In an IWF-sanctioned event, you're supposed to start competing 2 hrs after weigh in, although logistics can screw that up by an hour or even two at a big meet. But it's always day of competition.

 

[william bad butt]

As a weird bit of trivia, many (most? all?) PL federations have a much longer weigh-in vs competition window than weightlifting.

In an IWF-sanctioned event, you're supposed to start competing 2 hrs after weigh in, although logistics can screw that up by an hour or even two at a big meet. But it's always day of competition.

I'm not sure. I'm not hard-core PL. I've done 2 meets with 2 different federations and both allowed a weigh in the night before. At my last meet I weighed 242 lb (normal bodyweight). Coincidentally I wanted to compete in the 242lb weight class. That morning I ate breakfast and did a food/water fast until that evening. I weighed in at 239lb. Lots of Gatorade and food! During the meet, if I wasn't lifting I was either drinking orange Gatorade or eating peanut butter chocolate chip cliff bars.

 

[watchnerd]

eating peanut butter chocolate chip cliff bars.

Those things are so good I had to swear off buying them and keeping them in the house.

Although when I'm traveling, I'll eat like 2 a day.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

RELOAD by Fabio.

Congrats on turning 40!

This is very high level, strategy, advice... Maybe a "park bench" easy barbell program to build your base so you can focus on nutrition and sleep to get your weight in order? Then afterwards, get off the diet for 1-2 months and do a peaking plan to get big numbers?

Regards,

Eric

I think I will be basically combining these suggestions. I bought Reload last year when it went on sale, but my memory of it was a little off. I thought it was based off shooting for a 5x5 number, which it IS, but I forgot that it also includes the last 3 weeks tapering to a peak. That is exactly what I need, and comes out to an 8 week cycle. Add in 1-2 weeks for the tests required to know what numbers to use in the template and that gives me roughly a 9-10 week cycle. I love that it has exact numbers to plug in so there's no guessing or autoregulation as I am terrible at regulating myself so this suits my style better.

So for the next month or so, I will be doing an easy park bench practice with the basic lifts + pullups and abs to get practice in while I continue to focus on losing a bit more fat. Then I'll transition into Reload and see if I can hit my goals. Since the goals are based on arbitrary numbers and don't mean anything, failure is an option but having these goals will help to keep me motivated.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

I’m curious what others will say, but I am wondering about low rep/high weight work here. You can probably get away with more of a calorie deficit if you aren’t doing very high volume and conditioning isn’t a primary goal. I’m thinks almost easy strength style: as in 2-3 sets of 2-3 reps 2-3 days a week, but at an appropriately higher intensity. I’m sure there’s some room for adjustment there though. The only thing I’m not sure about is how much muscle mass you will maintain/gain/lose.

In the Reload program it basically has you use 5x5 for basebuilding, then 3/3, 2/2, and 1 RM the final 3 weeks and this seems like a pretty standard way to peak for a max lift effort. It also mentions that you can't really sustain sets of 2/3 for very long and people will hit more for a set of 3 in their cycle than a single at a meet because they tried to keep this going for too long. If I was closer to test time I think it would be a good strategy, but I've been just fine with 6 day a week practices on moderate calorie deficits for the last couple years so I think my recovery should be fine on a higher volume plan. *Think* being the key word,

 

[hardkorebob]

Im 38 this year in Sept. I can only recommend to let go of everything and have loads of fun. Do whatever you want. Test yourself in odd ways. Carry odd objects like moving a whole house. Going up and down stairs with furniture is definitely hard work. Go camping and find rocks and dead logs to lift and carry. Find a junkyard that has truck axles, engine parts, etc. A machine shop with weird steel objects. Fill PVC pipes of various sizes in length & diameter with water and carry overhead. Be safe! Be safe! Be safe! Have fun!!!

 

[Geoff Neupert]

Thanks, that was one path I had thought about (which is why I did Kettlebell Burn Extreme first) but my question is how do powerlifters or weightlifters simultaneously cut for a meet while peaking? I'm only looking at 10 lbs in 3 months, so it seemed pretty minor in the overall picture, but I could be wrong since I've usually only cut for BJJ meets where conditioning is much more important than strength so it was a non-factor.

Kettlebell Burn EXTREME! is based off a weightlifting program I did to burn fat while peaking for a meet.

You'd stated previously you could keep training like that, so why don't you?

Normally I'd never make that suggestion because EXTREME! is a shock cycle for most, but you stated you tolerated it quite well because of several factors, including the learning curve of some of the lifts.

So, you could follow the plan as outlined and knock off those last 10 pounds.

It would be an interesting experiment for sure.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Kettlebell Burn EXTREME! is based off a weightlifting program I did to burn fat while peaking for a meet.

You'd stated previously you could keep training like that, so why don't you?

Normally I'd never make that suggestion because EXTREME! is a shock cycle for most, but you stated you tolerated it quite well because of several factors, including the learning curve of some of the lifts.

So, you could follow the plan as outlined and knock off those last 10 pounds.

It would be an interesting experiment for sure.

Thanks Geoff, mostly I just didn't think I SHOULD continue since it was designed for only 4 weeks, but I guess since I haven't actually pushed it too hard it wouldn't hurt to keep doing it.

What do you think about doing another cycle but with the presses/squats in a chain instead of a complex? Too much mental ram? And/or doing cleans in the same volume of presses and squats? I found the lighter days to often be more challenging because even if I did the same number of total reps on the press & squat, I did more total sets which meant more cleans and thus more overall work.

 

[Geoff Neupert]

Thanks Geoff, mostly I just didn't think I SHOULD continue since it was designed for only 4 weeks, but I guess since I haven't actually pushed it too hard it wouldn't hurt to keep doing it.

What do you think about doing another cycle but with the presses/squats in a chain instead of a complex? Too much mental ram? And/or doing cleans in the same volume of presses and squats? I found the lighter days to often be more challenging because even if I did the same number of total reps on the press & squat, I did more total sets which meant more cleans and thus more overall work.

The Presses and Squats aren't supposed be done in a complex, but rather alternated sets. They CAN be done as a complex, especially with the lower reps, but that's not SOP. I think the confusion may lay in the "rest as needed between sets" prescription.

So I would use a load for you that's a legit 5RM DMP.

Hope this helps.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

The Presses and Squats aren't supposed be done in a complex, but rather alternated sets. They CAN be done as a complex, especially with the lower reps, but that's not SOP. I think the confusion may lay in the "rest as needed between sets" prescription.

So I would use a load for you that's a legit 5RM DMP.

Hope this helps.

Ok, I guess I added my own interpretation of “superset,” haha. Double 24’s was a true 5RM at the start of the program, probably a 7rm by the end. I don’t have any heavier doubles but I doubt I could do more than 1-2 if I had 28’s. I’ll try again with alternated sets and see how it goes. Thanks again for the help!