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Bodyweight help my to increase my reps

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Re-Bonjour

@quentin__bsbl
De ce que je comprends, la DSU belge est proche du GIGN / RAID en France. 'Féral' est un livre écrit par Philippe B, ancien du GIGN. Il y décrit son très complet programme de sport (qui implique des poids) ainsi que de tas de conseils pratiques (qui reposent sur la connaissance de ses points forts / faibles, et connaissance autant que faire se peut des épreuves). Excellent livre. Si pas de salle, tu peux remplacer certains mouvements (développé couché par exp, par des variantes dures au poids de corps (ici pompes à un bras) pour avoir les mêmes répétitions/sensations).

English
From what I understand, DSU in Belgium is like GIGN / RAID in France. 'Féral' is a book written by Philippe B, a former GIGN operator. He describes his very complete protocole (which uses weight) and tons of tips (based on our strengths and weaknesses assessment, and knowledge of the tests as much as possible). Excellent book. If there is no gym available, you can replace some moves (for instance bench press could be replaced by OAP to get the same reps/feeling)

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

quentin__bsbl

Level 2 Valued Member
Bonjour,

@quentin__bsbl
Tu peux sans doute la trouver en pdf sur le net.
Il m'a fallu 3-4 mois (3 séances par semaine). Quand sont les tests ?

English version :
You probably can find it for free on Internet.
It took me about 3-4 months (3 sessions a week). When are the tests planned ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
Je n'ai pas encore finir ma rétho donc j'ai encore au moins 5 mois devant moi avant mon entrée à la police. Je ne sais pas encore si je peux directement faire les testes pour la DSU car j'ai des infos différentes partout...Je pense que je vais d'abord faire 2 cycles de tractions lestées de 3-4 semaines chacune ( le 1er sera grease the groove et le 2eme fighter pull up car je pense que ces programmes fonctionnent mieux quand on à un max de reps au alentour de 8-14) et ensuite j'essayerai volontiers la méthode Lafay pour le temps qu'il me reste. Si je dois attendre encore 3 ans comme j'ai entendu quelque part, je pense que prendrai le programme de préparation militaire de Karam fit (il travail avec des mecs du GIGN, 1 RPIMA, Commando marine...)
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@quentin__bsbl
Je vois. Tu as aussi Forces Spéciales Coaching (on peut les contacter sur Fb). Les instructeurs sont d'anciens FS. Le fondateur est un ancien commando marine.

English:
I see. You also have Forces Spéciales Coaching (de can contact them on Fb). Instructors are former SF. Founder is a former Commando Marine.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

JonO

Level 2 Valued Member
I spent a lot of time building up my pull up rep max in my mid 20s and was able to reach 36 reps. The training method used was a pyramid program twice per week (1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-6-5-4-3-2-1) with 15 seconds of rest between each set. One session might be weighted with 20 lbs, and then another no weight, and then the next weighted with 40 lbs, etc. I tried to mix it up to avoid doing the same thing all of the time. For weighted sessions the pyramids were shorter.

If you are looking for max reps IMHO the goal is not so much strength but getting really good at doing a lot of pull ups in a short period of time. How you do your pull ups make a difference as well. When you hang from the bar engage your shoulders so they are retracted. Then during your reps only go down until you straighten out your arms but do not unhinge your shoulders, keep them tight. Focus on being relaxed and smooth for the first 15 reps and move at a efficient pace. As you get close to fatigue tense up your lower body and abs so they are as tight as possible and grip the bar to get out more reps.

I only suggest this since you are trying to max your reps for a test. Under normal training my preference would be for the tactical pull up and fewer but more quality reps.

Good luck.
 

quentin__bsbl

Level 2 Valued Member
Bonjour,

@quentin__bsbl
Tu peux sans doute la trouver en pdf sur le net.
Il m'a fallu 3-4 mois (3 séances par semaine). Quand sont les tests ?

English version :
You probably can find it for free on Internet.
It took me about 3-4 months (3 sessions a week). When are the tests planned ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
dans 5 mois MINIMUM et c'est le max en 30" et quelqu'un qui à déjà fait le test m'a dis que avec 13-14 c'était bon. Après je veux être à 25-30 pour toute la sélection.
 

quentin__bsbl

Level 2 Valued Member
I spent a lot of time building up my pull up rep max in my mid 20s and was able to reach 36 reps. The training method used was a pyramid program twice per week (1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-6-5-4-3-2-1) with 15 seconds of rest between each set. One session might be weighted with 20 lbs, and then another no weight, and then the next weighted with 40 lbs, etc. I tried to mix it up to avoid doing the same thing all of the time. For weighted sessions the pyramids were shorter.

If you are looking for max reps IMHO the goal is not so much strength but getting really good at doing a lot of pull ups in a short period of time. How you do your pull ups make a difference as well. When you hang from the bar engage your shoulders so they are retracted. Then during your reps only go down until you straighten out your arms but do not unhinge your shoulders, keep them tight. Focus on being relaxed and smooth for the first 15 reps and move at a efficient pace. As you get close to fatigue tense up your lower body and abs so they are as tight as possible and grip the bar to get out more reps.

I only suggest this since you are trying to max your reps for a test. Under normal training my preference would be for the tactical pull up and fewer but more quality reps.

Good luck.
ok thank you for all these explanations. I just have one question, how many sets did you do per session and did you go to your max (when you couldn't do any more afterwards) or did you stop before? And how did you increase the weight (+ 20lb each session?) and keep a session without weight until the end or you started doing weighted pull-ups in 2 sessions from a point?
 

Kyle Kowalczuk

Level 5 Valued Member
Thank you for the mention @Don Fairbanks

Everyone is obviously a little different but I have found a few principles that work well for high rep strict pull ups through experience. I have done this working off other programs and tweaking them for my needs. Here they are. Take them for what they are worth. Keep in mind my approach is similar to trying to nudge up a lift with a barbell or kettlebell.

1. Hanging plus pull up complexes. Start counting the number of pull ups you can do with 30 sec hang in between them. So you may try this the first time and get 3 or 4. Try to nudge this number up over time by working sub-maximally is smaller sets. For example do 3 sets of 30sec hang and 1 pull 30 sec hang 1 pull up. And build volume over time to something like 8-10 sets. Then retest. This is the capacity building phase.

2. The FPP program works great but in my experience needs to be loaded if you can do over 15-20 pull ups. So try a 15-20 pound weight for your pull up and start with a 10-8-6-4-2 scheme. Nudge this up over time just like the standard FPP. I use this a like a peaking cycle because running this over and over again can give you tendon problems.

Keep in mind that when doing this I am also doing many snatches and deadlifts in my program as I am a TSC competitor and they are kinda piggy back off each other. So if you aren't doing those other grip intensive things you may be ok with more volume.

This strategy gave my 35 pull ups in the last TSC.

Good luck
 

quentin__bsbl

Level 2 Valued Member
Re-Bonjour

@quentin__bsbl
De ce que je comprends, la DSU belge est proche du GIGN / RAID en France. 'Féral' est un livre écrit par Philippe B, ancien du GIGN. Il y décrit son très complet programme de sport (qui implique des poids) ainsi que de tas de conseils pratiques (qui reposent sur la connaissance de ses points forts / faibles, et connaissance autant que faire se peut des épreuves). Excellent livre. Si pas de salle, tu peux remplacer certains mouvements (développé couché par exp, par des variantes dures au poids de corps (ici pompes à un bras) pour avoir les mêmes répétitions/sensations).

English
From what I understand, DSU in Belgium is like GIGN / RAID in France. 'Féral' is a book written by Philippe B, a former GIGN operator. He describes his very complete protocole (which uses weight) and tons of tips (based on our strengths and weaknesses assessment, and knowledge of the tests as much as possible). Excellent book. If there is no gym available, you can replace some moves (for instance bench press could be replaced by OAP to get the same reps/feeling)

Kind regards,

Pet'
oui je l'ai déjà acheté et lu mais je compte le relire et prendre des notes pour pouvoir en tirer pleinement profit. Merci beaucoup pour votre attention et vos recherche pour m'aider ça me touche énormément.
 

quentin__bsbl

Level 2 Valued Member
Thank you for the mention @Don Fairbanks

Everyone is obviously a little different but I have found a few principles that work well for high rep strict pull ups through experience. I have done this working off other programs and tweaking them for my needs. Here they are. Take them for what they are worth. Keep in mind my approach is similar to trying to nudge up a lift with a barbell or kettlebell.

1. Hanging plus pull up complexes. Start counting the number of pull ups you can do with 30 sec hang in between them. So you may try this the first time and get 3 or 4. Try to nudge this number up over time by working sub-maximally is smaller sets. For example do 3 sets of 30sec hang and 1 pull 30 sec hang 1 pull up. And build volume over time to something like 8-10 sets. Then retest. This is the capacity building phase.

2. The FPP program works great but in my experience needs to be loaded if you can do over 15-20 pull ups. So try a 15-20 pound weight for your pull up and start with a 10-8-6-4-2 scheme. Nudge this up over time just like the standard FPP. I use this a like a peaking cycle because running this over and over again can give you tendon problems.

Keep in mind that when doing this I am also doing many snatches and deadlifts in my program as I am a TSC competitor and they are kinda piggy back off each other. So if you aren't doing those other grip intensive things you may be ok with more volume.

This strategy gave my 35 pull ups in the last TSC.

Good luck
ok thank you very much for your advice i will apply them immediately. And so making the FPP program and simple and sinister will be possible without one taxing too much on the other?
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@quentin__bsbl
It depends on where you are in S&S and what your goals are. If pull ups the goal, then as soon as S&S slow their progression down, you have to scale S&S back to keep progressing on pull ups. The reverse is true as well. If pull ups slow your S&S progression down, then reduce the pull ups.

FPP is demanding. Do not hesitate to do it on alternate days.

Do not forget to work on other abilities, such as running, which is essential in any spec ops selection. Usually, 30-40km per week is a staple. Doing it using aerobic pathway is important. Paired , with some sprinting / interval 2x a week, it'd be ok. Most 'serious' programmes will make you run almost daily.

Is there some swimming ?

Red Zone is another programme (25 presses, 100 swings, 25 presses, 3x a week) which is also excellent.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

quentin__bsbl

Level 2 Valued Member
Hello,

@quentin__bsbl
It depends on where you are in S&S and what your goals are. If pull ups the goal, then as soon as S&S slow their progression down, you have to scale S&S back to keep progressing on pull ups. The reverse is true as well. If pull ups slow your S&S progression down, then reduce the pull ups.

FPP is demanding. Do not hesitate to do it on alternate days.

Do not forget to work on other abilities, such as running, which is essential in any spec ops selection. Usually, 30-40km per week is a staple. Doing it using aerobic pathway is important. Paired , with some sprinting / interval 2x a week, it'd be ok. Most 'serious' programmes will make you run almost daily.

Is there some swimming ?

Red Zone is another programme (25 presses, 100 swings, 25 presses, 3x a week) which is also excellent.

Kind regards,

Pet'
je fais S&S plus pour rester en forme au niveau de la force mais je n'ai pas vraiment l'objectif de finir "simple avec chrono" tant que je ne suis pas à 25-30 tractions. Je vais commencer FPP avec 10kg, mon max est 10 donc je pense que je vais commencer à 8-7-6-5-4-3 ou devrai je commencer à 10-8-6-4-2? et j'utilise le programme de course de https://www.sfg.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/P6ETJApu8k.pdf quand je l'aurai terminer je pense que je partirai sur un programme avec 2 séances et 5/6 jours d'entraînement à la course. Je vais me renseigner sur Red Zone et si vous connaissez un bon programme de pompes je suis preneur (je pense que je vais m'entraîner avec le système de pyramide 2x semaine avec 1 séance lestée)
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@quentin__bsbl
Sounds good to me.

70 to 90km per week seems like a lot though. The HR also seems high. I would not exceed 60km a week, which is already a good amount. I would also rather use MAF formula (180-age) instead of 220-age to be sure to stay in the aerobic zone. This is built with time and is time well spent.

As far as push up are concerned, I used something super simple. On a daily basis, GTG with OA push ups, and 2-3 sets of 5 reps of HSPU. This will give you strength, and will automatically give you push up endurance. Daily, do 1 or 2 set of higher reps, but keep 10-15 reps in the bank (for instance, 1 in the morning, 1 in the evening). This is for tendons and ligaments.

This strategy does not take time and works well.

Another one, which I also tested, is regular GTG with regular push ups (multiple sets of half max). But this takes more time during the day. It also builds less strength (but more endurance).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

quentin__bsbl

Level 2 Valued Member
Hello,

@quentin__bsbl
Sounds good to me.

70 to 90km per week seems like a lot though. The HR also seems high. I would not exceed 60km a week, which is already a good amount. I would also rather use MAF formula (180-age) instead of 220-age to be sure to stay in the aerobic zone. This is built with time and is time well spent.

As far as push up are concerned, I used something super simple. On a daily basis, GTG with OA push ups, and 2-3 sets of 5 reps of HSPU. This will give you strength, and will automatically give you push up endurance. Daily, do 1 or 2 set of higher reps, but keep 10-15 reps in the bank (for instance, 1 in the morning, 1 in the evening). This is for tendons and ligaments.

This strategy does not take time and works well.

Another one, which I also tested, is regular GTG with regular push ups (multiple sets of half max). But this takes more time during the day. It also builds less strength (but more endurance).

Kind regards,

Pet'
d'accord je vais faire les OA push ups car il y a aussi un test de Bench et je ne sais pas si j'aurai le temps de m'entraîner à ça à cause de la fermeture des salles due au COVID.
Encore merci pour tout je vous tiendrai au courant de ma progression :)
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello @quentin__bsbl

Pour améliorer le développé couché, n'hésite pas à faire des HSPU (si facile, utilise un support pour augmenter l'amplitude). Idem avec OA.

Les poussées verticales aident plus aux poussées horizontales que le contraire.

Question : s'agit-il du programme officiel que tu as sité ?

Bien à toi,

Pet'
 

quentin__bsbl

Level 2 Valued Member
Hello @quentin__bsbl

Pour améliorer le développé couché, n'hésite pas à faire des HSPU (si facile, utilise un support pour augmenter l'amplitude). Idem avec OA.

Les poussées verticales aident plus aux poussées horizontales que le contraire.

Question : s'agit-il du programme officiel que tu as sité ?

Bien à toi,

Pet'
Oui une connaissance à fait les tests et m'a envoyer le mail qu'il a reçu concernant les tests de sélection avec tout les exercices à réaliser. Si vous parliez du programme de course à pied, je comptais passez par chez les para-commandos et donc ce programme de course me semblait parfaitement adapté, mais après réflexion avec moi-même et ma famille je vais directement m'engager à la police. Je me demande donc si se programme est toujours optimale pour une préparation afin d'intégrer une unité de police d'intervention (ce programme est fait pour une préparation au force spéciale de l'armée belge). Je pense que je devrai plus travailler le cardio (augmenter l'entraînement fractionné) et diminuer les marches lestés (qui vont jusqu'à 25km) et les courses d'endurance (qui vont jusqu'à 110min de course)
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@quentin__bsbl
Je ne suis pas expert sur l'organisation de l'armée / police / FS en Belgique mais si la DSU est rattachée à la police, alors en France l'équipe équivalente est le RAID (GIGN est rattaché à la gendarmerie, qui est une branche de l'armée). RAID & GIGN ont plus ou moins les mêmes "activités". Ainsi, elles ont des tests "similaires".

Ainsi, je te conseille de t'inspirer de Féral. Son programme est vraiment bien construit (fait par Karim Clémenceau, expert en Krav, world champion). Dans un des paragraphes, il disait qu'il courait 10km / jour (ce qui est la norme dans la plupart des processus de sélection: course pour aller de A à B, course en tant qu'épreuve, etc...). Ces 10km étaient fait de façon aérobique. Il a aussi fait des marches commando (mais ne donne pas de protocoles pour elles, de mémoire).

Impact 357 (co écrit par R. Paturel, ex du RAID) va dans le même sens.

English
I am not an expert about organisation of army / police / SF in Belgium, but if DSU is a police branch, then in France, its equivalent would be RAID (GIGN is a branch of "Gendarmerie" which is an army branch). Both have roughly the same activities. Then they have "similar" tests.

Then, you could get some inspiration from Féral. His programme is really well designed (by Karim Clémenceau, expert in Krav, world champion). In one section, he told he ran up until 10km a day (which is common in most of selection process: run to go from A to B, running as a test per se, etc...). These 10k are done aerobically. He also did marches, but does not provide protocols for them, if I remember correctly.

Impact 357 (co-written by R. Paturel, former RAID) obey by the same rule.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

JonO

Level 2 Valued Member
ok thank you for all these explanations. I just have one question, how many sets did you do per session and did you go to your max (when you couldn't do any more afterwards) or did you stop before? And how did you increase the weight (+ 20lb each session?) and keep a session without weight until the end or you started doing weighted pull-ups in 2 sessions from a point?
A quick FYI - I pulled the basis for this training from a book by Mark Delisle called the Navy Seal Workout who is an ex-Navy Seal and wrote a book describing their specialized training in 1997. Another ex-Navy Seal Stew Smith has programs specifically for people who are looking to pass military entrance tests and has written an article for Strong First on pyramid training a few months back.

For me doing one pyramid was one set and that was all I did for that type of pull up. I would then go onto commando pull ups, close grip pull ups, and then behind the neck pull ups. Regular pull ups were first with the tallest pyramid. The remainder would be pretty short pyramids like a 1-2-3-2-1 due to fatigue. The same was done for push ups and dips. Squats were done using traditional sets. If I wanted to test my max then I would forego pyramids all together for that week and do a short warm up set, max out, followed by a short cool down set.

When starting this program I was already doing weighted push ups, dips, and pull ups with a 40 lb weighted vest. So there was no building up to the weight. I would typically do one non-weighted session each week and one weighted. The weighted sessions alternated between 20 lbs and 40 lbs of weight.
 

quentin__bsbl

Level 2 Valued Member
Hello,

@quentin__bsbl
Je ne suis pas expert sur l'organisation de l'armée / police / FS en Belgique mais si la DSU est rattachée à la police, alors en France l'équipe équivalente est le RAID (GIGN est rattaché à la gendarmerie, qui est une branche de l'armée). RAID & GIGN ont plus ou moins les mêmes "activités". Ainsi, elles ont des tests "similaires".

Ainsi, je te conseille de t'inspirer de Féral. Son programme est vraiment bien construit (fait par Karim Clémenceau, expert en Krav, world champion). Dans un des paragraphes, il disait qu'il courait 10km / jour (ce qui est la norme dans la plupart des processus de sélection: course pour aller de A à B, course en tant qu'épreuve, etc...). Ces 10km étaient fait de façon aérobique. Il a aussi fait des marches commando (mais ne donne pas de protocoles pour elles, de mémoire).

Impact 357 (co écrit par R. Paturel, ex du RAID) va dans le même sens.

English
I am not an expert about organisation of army / police / SF in Belgium, but if DSU is a police branch, then in France, its equivalent would be RAID (GIGN is a branch of "Gendarmerie" which is an army branch). Both have roughly the same activities. Then they have "similar" tests.

Then, you could get some inspiration from Féral. His programme is really well designed (by Karim Clémenceau, expert in Krav, world champion). In one section, he told he ran up until 10km a day (which is common in most of selection process: run to go from A to B, running as a test per se, etc...). These 10k are done aerobically. He also did marches, but does not provide protocols for them, if I remember correctly.

Impact 357 (co-written by R. Paturel, former RAID) obey by the same rule.

Kind regards,

Pet'
ouais je vais revoir mon programme de course je pense
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Yesterday evening, I did a few researches. In the PDF link provided above, this is for Special Forces Group. This seems to be different from DSU.

From an historical standpoint, SF Gp was born during WW2 and first members were teached by British SAS. These guys are among the best runners / ruckers. This is why there is a lot of rucking and running in your programme.

So my point is to pick up a programme which sticks well to the unit. For instance, a programme for 1st SFG would not be perfectly suited to SEAL due to way less swimming and 'too much' runs / rucks.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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