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Other/Mixed Help with programming?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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DaveS

Level 3 Valued Member
Hi all,

My first post here at Strongfirst but i used to be a member of the Dragondoor forum many years a go.

I am 38 years old, 5'8" around 73kg at approx 14% bodyfat (according scales at least).

Ive been doing convict conditioning for the last few years but very on/off due to injuries and illness though am generally healthy now bar a current winter virus that is giving me the opportunity to consider changing my routine while i wait to resome training.

Before all the problems/layoffs I used to do some bodyweight stuff and KBs and got to the point i could press 32kg bells for 3 reps, snatch 24kg for 183 reps in 10 minutes and have done a pistol with 2 x 24kg bells for 1 'shaky' rep as a PB and did a 178kg deadlift for 1 rep without any deadlift training (just KBs double snatches carryover).

More recently as i have built back up as my health has allowed, I have been enjoying doing Cc and bodyweight exercises and now at a level where i can do about 10 quality reps for standard pullups, HSPUs, OAPUs, and 20 reps for Pistols, Hanging leg raises and bridge press ups.

I am now wanting to move away from the CC set rep scheme to something more effective to progres further but keep some of the exercises from it but add in some KBs again now i feel ok to do so but find myself caught between different goals and access to KBs and thought id bounce the scenario off of knowledgeable people here as how best to set up my schedule.

My goals now are focused on strength and general GPP for life and as a recreational martial artist (Boxing and self defence) and soccer player but with some secondary physique goals included of a development similar to a lightweight UFC fighter (physique not far from it now bar needing to lose some more fat and gain a little more muscle so not wanting to lose that as i want to look like a train too).

Just to make this more complicated i also want to achieve these with as little fatigue/soreness as possible to help me in fully recovering my health and make me 'ever ready' to perform and so there is a balance at play here between needing to fatigue myself somewhat to get a small hypertrophy response but minimising the fatigue to the smallest amount possible whilst still achieving the goal.

Im limited to 3 sessions per week on Monday, Thursday and Saturday and have to work into the sessions my Boxing and Soccer practice for time efficiency sake.

Also what complicates it further is I can only get access to KBs once per week on the Saturday session and only have bodyweight (and a heavy dumbbell) during the week so just following a standard KB programme is not possible.

Im thinking to do something like the below but would love to hear from people with any thoughts on changes they would make and why.

Monday - 3-5 style session with Pullups and HSPUs with short powerbased Hill sprints all in a slow circuit style but with soccer skill drills (low physical demand) in between the exercises, 3 minutes drill then a set of exercise alternating for a 1 hour session. Stretch at end.

Tuesday - Joint mobility work/rest

Wednesday - Kickboxing session at local gym - drills (easy work) and sparring (moderate work). Stretch after.

Thursday - 3-5 style but spaced morning and evening around working day - Aussie Pullups (working towards one arm style), OAPUs and Bridge Press Up (work towards one leg style).

Friday - Joint Mobility work/rest

Saturday - 3-5 style session with KBs Military Presses, Double Snatches (sets of 10) and weighted Pistols done alternating as rounds between Boxing bag work in similar vein to Monday session - 3 minutes bag drills (moderate intensity) then 2 minutes off using 30 secs to get my breathing normalised before them doing a set of an exercise, 30 secs rest before doing the next bag round. Skipping and stretching to finish.

Any constructive thoughts welcome.

Thanks,

Dave.
 
Hey Steve, thanks for the reply. I havent got simple and sinister but have got the original RKB challenge book and Enter the Kettlebell book and could just follow those programmes but i only get access to kettlebells once per week for the foreseeable future so difficult to follow a set programe of just one book/training modality, hence the post of how best to 'hedge my bets' between different goals and modalities without ruining the effectiveness. Thanks,

Dave.
 
Welcome to the Forum!

I agree with @Steve Freides that you should check out Simple and Sinister. And given your ability to snatch the bell you would probably benefit from The Quick and the Dead too. It's also a minimalist approach but more advanced than S&S because of the snatches.

To me your biggest hurdle is cramming everything you want to do into 3 sessions. Unfortunately there's no way to get good at everything at once. As the saying goes, "If you want to press a lot, you have to press a lot." And there's only so much time in the day. Is it possible for you to narrow your focus? If you were on a desert island and needed to develop one capacity for survival given your current level of fitness / strength, what would it be? When you decide that I recommend you put your focus there. You could possibly work a secondary lift as well depending on your ability to recover as I know you don't want to be sore. (Though in my experience if you're consistent, soreness goes away after a short time.)

Thoughts?
 
Hey John, thanks for the reply and your thoughts.

Yes it would definitely be easier to set up a schedule based on one modality with a S&S or quick and dead set up but my limited access to KBs makes following any one program based on them impossible unless there is some program that recommends i only do one session a week! Being serious though, of course one of Pavels emphasis is on frequent non exhaustive work and makes so much sense. Your link to the quick and the dead was useful though, the description of the book reads very close to my life situation so the concepts would still be an interesting read, a friend also recommended that book the other day as it happens so i might have to check it out!

My compromise here was that each of my sessions had at least some carryover between the different movements of push/pull/squat so HSPUs, OAPUS and KB militarily presses might all have enough carryover to support the development of each other. No doubt progress is slower than focusing on just one at a time but given i cant KB frequently enough would then mean having to not do any KB Militaries and only do say HSPUs 3x per week. The other thought there is training one press movement and rotating seems fine from a purely functional strength standpoint but for my secondary goal of ‘mild hypertrophy’ it leaves the pecs out of it too much to remain balanced perhaps (my pecs and quads alway lag behind the rest)?

Same thinking behind the pull and squat/hinge selections but as i read the schedule back did think it leaves me with loads of different movements. Of course countering that though is im not new to any of the movements and so not learning them for the first time so perhaps that does free me up to be ok with more variety simultaneously, unlike if you cant do a OAPU or Pistol and so use a program like NW to specialise on it until you can do them ok.

I also didnt want to drop any of the CC ‘big 6’ having been doing them all for quite a while now bar the hanging leg raises which i switched for Aussie pullups as i always felt able to do HLRs so long as my pullups were strong and the Aussie PUs better balance the OAPUs.

Perhaps im over complicating things but my situation has thrown this scenario up especially as i started contemplating doing KBs again and looking back on old pavel books.

Interesting questions you pose thought on desert island scenario, my endurance lags my strength and speed currently but my previous health issues have left me with what could be called ‘mild chronic fatigue’ and so probably explains it more. When kickboxing sparring my biggest issues are with gassing but yet doing any more endurance work than the bag work session probably be too much to recover from affecting frequency then.

Yes soreness eases and a little a times if pushing harder for a while is ok but i like Pavels 3-5 style approach from the martial power DVDs and the idea of being ‘ever ready’.

What do you think to the 3-5 method being enough to give a mild Hypertrophy response?

Thanks,

Dave.
 
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Hey Dave,

Your limited time is the main reason why I suggested S&S or Q&D. S&S in particular because Q&D can take some time depending on the day, but S&S is quick. Since your access to KBs is limited have you considered purchasing a bell to have access all the time? You wouldn't need to get many of them. To be honest, you could likely purchase one bell for either of the programs (24 or 28k depending on whether you swing or snatch) and call it good.

In terms of "mild" hypertrophy 3-5 reps might work. I mean it's below the generally accepted rep range for hypertrophy but if you don't want major adaptation it might work. Only one way to find out...

Another thing you should check out is this program that Craig Marker wrote up on Breaking Muscle: HIRT for Hypertrophy Given your scheduling limitations this might be a good "catch all" one to try but it is a bit more gear dependent than the others. Unfortunately there's no perfect solution. Though from what you've written it seems that asking Santa for a bell might be a good one.

Stay strong, my friend!
John
 
DaveS said:
I also didnt want to drop any of the CC ‘big 6’
Click to expand...

I can feel this. However, read Q&D and think again: it has some nice tables on the benefits of power training for maintaining or building qualities such as endurance, hypertrophy and strength (if memory serves).

With this in mind, some more focus and minimalism could serve you well. Say: GTG pistols and one-arm pushups + heavy swings in sets of 5-10 during the week and snatches on saturday. Maybe low rep DLs once or twice per week. After four weeks, evaluate and adjust.
 
John/Bauer - one thing I hadn’t taken into account is just how much cheaper kettlebells are nowadays! John, your comments of getting another made me curious to look and they are not nearly as expensive to buy as they were 10+ years ago when i was last using them! Still cant afford another just yet as xmas with a young daughter not cheap! But might become possible by the summer. S&S still a bit too minimalist for me though and dont want conditioning work from it as get what i need from boxing/soccer. Bauer- yes i always liked that NW with KB snatches combo for minimalism but would want to keep pullups too so am thinking more a strength focused 3-5 style press/pull/squat/hinge and rotating in different movements each cycle so do say OAPU/OA ROW/Pistol/DB Snatches for 4 weeks as you say then do HSPU/Pullups/Pistol variant/Heavy DB swings the next cycle and rotate keeping bridging work (without press up) as part of stretching routine. The only issue left is no room for KB militaries though if do another bell in the summer this becomes possible and the new thinking from Pavel of preference for other presses seems to make it less of a priority!

Im also thinking perhaps I should make the last set only an easier move to get 10-12 reps going a little closer to failure as a hypertrophy back off set that done after the 2-4 sets of 3-5 get me closer to the rep range needed for mild hypertrophy without losing focus on strength nor producing too much fatigue, it might work?

Anyway thanks a lot for the input guys you have been helpful in focusing my thinking and narrowing it all down to something more simple.

Dave.
 
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