Kettlebell Hi there

[happyhd]

I just started simple and sinister with the goal of achiving simple. I would like to achieve sinister in due time, but would like feedback if it is a worthwhile goal for my person. The reason I am asking is my bodyweight; 80kg with a roughly 5kg of unnecessary fat. While most things are possible, I am wondering if achieving sinister with a 48kg bell would not be the best use of training time(if at all possible). As I burn off excess fat 48kg is 64% of BW@75kg, this seems not efficient. I read that for overpowered eccentrics ~30% of BW was ideal and I know this is not it, but still seems overkill.

I don't have access to a 48kg atm, but I tried swinging the heaviest bell I could find, a 60kg(twohanded obviously) and could swing it roughly half of proper height for 3 single reps only. It left me feeling not great.

If you read this and weigh <=80kg and you have achieved sinister, please tell me.

In the meantime, the plan is simple -> rite of passage -> either sinister or something else.

Thank you.

PS: I have decided to attend the kettlebell course in Ireland in March 2021. It's a bit of a leap of faith with corona, but I have booked accomodation and flight tickets. Do you guys see it as possible, for the time being, that this course will happen?

 

[Steve Freides]

Welcome back to the StrongFirst forum, @happyhd.

I recommend you work on one goal at a time, e.g., I would like to deadlift 405 lbs, but I'm going to work on deadlifting 375 lbs first. Focus on Simple, then concern yourself with what comes next.

As to the course in Ireland, if you go to our web site, click on Find An Instructor, and put "Ireland" into the search box, among the names to appear will be John Kenny, a member of our leadership. Reach out to him via the Contact link on his instructor page. Or you may visit StrongFirst Ireland and send a message from there.

-S-

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Welcome to the forum..

The excess weight can be taken care of by tightening up your eating habits

What excites you in terms of training and goals? Those are what you should also consider

 

[happyhd]

Thank you for the welcome(back) @Steve Freides and @Mark Limbaga!

Working on one goal at a time is good advice, and I have gone against it more than one time, mostly because I love training different aspects, typically KB, calisthenics, deadlifts and strongmanlike stuff. I am set on achieving Simple - having a clear, concise target ahead is good for me.

This is my n'th return to training - before this November I had been quite sedentary in front of a computer. Long story short: new job as system developer, I wanted to give my best(still do) and I went all-in. Result: I know more programming languages than I used to. Also, I am soft, squishy, in bad shape and rather weak. Muscle memory, knowledge and desire is helping though

I know cleaning up eating habits help, and I believe I have, so I am not worried about the fat at all, I am simply curious how possible swinging a kettlebell weighing 64% of bw @75kg will be. Speaking of bw, I have experienced something strange after beeing 2 weeks into S&S: I gained 3kg, can't remember that I ate more, then it went away after 2 days. Very strange, could be water I guess.

Also, I recently switched to one-arm swing(I started with 5x10 -> 10x10 two-armed) and I was humbled. I lack "punch"(getting slightly better each day) and my grip is close to failing. This suprised me as grip has been one of my strong suits(lots of farm work in my life). TGU seems great though. I am using 24kg for both.

Should I downgrade to 16kg for swings? I own those(or so I like to think) or keep pushing?

 

[Mark Limbaga]

If you would be oh so kind to send a video, we can give you better feedback as to how you can progress

 

[Whosonfirst]

Thank you for the welcome(back) @Steve Freides and @Mark Limbaga!

Working on one goal at a time is good advice, and I have gone against it more than one time, mostly because I love training different aspects, typically KB, calisthenics, deadlifts and strongmanlike stuff. I am set on achieving Simple - having a clear, concise target ahead is good for me.

This is my n'th return to training - before this November I had been quite sedentary in front of a computer. Long story short: new job as system developer, I wanted to give my best(still do) and I went all-in. Result: I know more programming languages than I used to. Also, I am soft, squishy, in bad shape and rather weak. Muscle memory, knowledge and desire is helping though

I know cleaning up eating habits help, and I believe I have, so I am not worried about the fat at all, I am simply curious how possible swinging a kettlebell weighing 64% of bw @75kg will be. Speaking of bw, I have experienced something strange after beeing 2 weeks into S&S: I gained 3kg, can't remember that I ate more, then it went away after 2 days. Very strange, could be water I guess.

Also, I recently switched to one-arm swing(I started with 5x10 -> 10x10 two-armed) and I was humbled. I lack "punch"(getting slightly better each day) and my grip is close to failing. This suprised me as grip has been one of my strong suits(lots of farm work in my life). TGU seems great though. I am using 24kg for both.

Should I downgrade to 16kg for swings? I own those(or so I like to think) or keep pushing?

Welcome back. I have to echo @Mark Limbaga . Cleaning up eating habits do more than help. In my opinion, they're 80% of where the gains(losses) come from. I'd say for some it can be as much as 90/10 split. At only an estimated 5kg. of extra weight, swings and good eating should provide the impetus. 24kg. will get the job done.

 

[happyhd]

If you would be oh so kind to send a video, we can give you better feedback as to how you can progress

Video was a good idea, I see things feel better than they look..any feedback welcome. I want to perfect my technique. I can't seem to upload both videos, getting error about file format though they are the same.

 

[Anna C]

Video was a good idea, I see things feel better than they look..any feedback welcome. I want to perfect my technique. I can't seem to upload both videos, getting error about file format though they are the same.

You have have to upload them somewhere else (youtube, etc.) and post the link here.

 

[happyhd]

https://youtu.be/EwIE08vvscY¹

 

[happyhd]

 

[Anna C]

Looks pretty good, @happyhd !

On your get-up, keep the non-working shoulder packed, and slow it down just a bit (my preference is 30-35 seconds from press up to set-down. Pause and own each position.) Also, when going from lunge to tripod such as at :30 and :55, add either a windshield-wiper of the back leg, OR a move of the front leg out. Examples

On your swings, from the front, in the second video, it looks good -- nice stance, timing, explosiveness, delaying of the hinge. Staying pretty well aligned with the one-arm swings. All good.

In the first video from the side, I see a lot of pushing the bell directly with the hips and a bit of overextension (leaning back) at the top. It's a common thing. Quoting one of my past reviews, "don't try to push the bell directly with your hips; the force transfer should be mostly indirect; i.e. ideally your hip and knee extension transfers up through your moving torso to your shoulders, arms, and the bell, and that's what makes it go forward, not a direct push from hips to forearms." I think if you put the focus on pushing your feet into the ground and standing tall, as opposed to putting focus on the kettlebell, this will be a good adjustment. It also looks like you're adding a bit of lift with the arms at the top... practice letting the arms be ropes and just let the kettlebell go to whatever height your body movement propels it to, practicing making that snappier and more powerful as the weight gets heavier.

Keep up the good work!!

 

[happyhd]

Thank

Looks pretty good, @happyhd !

On your get-up, keep the non-working shoulder packed, and slow it down just a bit (my preference is 30-35 seconds from press up to set-down. Pause and own each position.) Also, when going from lunge to tripod such as at :30 and :55, add either a windshield-wiper of the back leg, OR a move of the front leg out. Examples

On your swings, from the front, in the second video, it looks good -- nice stance, timing, explosiveness, delaying of the hinge. Staying pretty well aligned with the one-arm swings. All good.

In the first video from the side, I see a lot of pushing the bell directly with the hips and a bit of overextension (leaning back) at the top. It's a common thing. Quoting one of my past reviews, "don't try to push the bell directly with your hips; the force transfer should be mostly indirect; i.e. ideally your hip and knee extension transfers up through your moving torso to your shoulders, arms, and the bell, and that's what makes it go forward, not a direct push from hips to forearms." I think if you put the focus on pushing your feet into the ground and standing tall, as opposed to putting focus on the kettlebell, this will be a good adjustment. It also looks like you're adding a bit of lift with the arms at the top... practice letting the arms be ropes and just let the kettlebell go to whatever height your body movement propels it to, practicing making that snappier and more powerful as the weight gets heavier.

Keep up the good work!!

Thank you!
I thought the very central thing with the hip hinge was to push to bell in a horizontal movement. This was new to me. Do you think I should bend the knees less?

 

[Anna C]

Thank

Thank you!
I thought the very central thing with the hip hinge was to push to bell in a horizontal movement. This was new to me. Do you think I should bend the knees less?

You're welcome! No, your knee bend is good, and your hinge is good. It's just a matter of redirecting the force on the bell. Have a look at this post where we discussed that same thing, and this post where I attempted to demonstrate it, and let me know if that helps...

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Actually you got something very workable..

Swing.. focus more on the hip snap and really drive the heels to the ground, that will make the bell float

Getup to slower and pay extra attention to the windshield wiper..open up chest and keep shoulders away from the ears

 

[happyhd]

Thank you both for good replies, please don't be too kind - I want to improve I usually to better Getups(with a 24), was a bit suprised how wobbly 28kg made me(was at a friends house). Regarding using arms, I am quote confident that I don't, I make a thing out of slightly releasing my grip on the top to feel if the bell is floating, if it is not, I stop.

I usually don't film myself, I saw that my upper back round in some positions of the swing, any good tips on working out slouching shoulders? I do wall squats and stretch chest per now.

 

[happyhd]

You're welcome! No, your knee bend is good, and your hinge is good. It's just a matter of redirecting the force on the bell. Have a look at this post where we discussed that same thing, and this post where I attempted to demonstrate it, and let me know if that helps...

Another question - how to avoid working with the lumbar back if bell is not touching the hips? Again, very interesting, totally new info for me.

 

[Anna C]

I saw that my upper back round in some positions of the swing, any good tips on working out slouching shoulders?

Cue yourself "big chest" and practice slowly with kettlebell deadlifts, keeping chest up/out throughout the movement. Tight lats tie in with that also -- tight armpits, and shoulders pulled down away from ears. When that feels natural then bring that pattern back to the swing. Deadlifts are always a great way to pattern the swing.

Another question - how to avoid working with the lumbar back if bell is not touching the hips? Again, very interesting, totally new info for me.

The back should stay in the same position throughout. "Flat", "neutral", descriptions basically saying there is basically no movement of the spine other than the torso is moving back and forth from hinge to plank. All of the movement is hips and knees. As always, the best way to protect the low back is a good abdominal brace. Not sure if I'm answering your question, so if I've missed it, let me know...

Great example below in today's post, StrongFirst Team Leader Sven Rieger. There is some contact between forearms and hips -- this is good and expected -- but the "push" isn't direct, and isn't what makes the kettlebell move.

 

[happyhd]

fun fact about kettlebell training:

When making the videos in the above post I was at a friends house. Now, my friend is in better shape then me, a former navy man, soccer player and allround athletic guy that love intense training. He wanted to join for a kettlebell workout and we just threw together the following quick workout done back to back(rest while the other works) with a 28kg bell:

10x10 two-arm swings
5 rounds of 5 goblet squat + 10 pushups

Now for the kicker. He wanted a finisher, sitting across each other on the floor, at an angle, doing sit-ups with a "gymball" while throwing
this to each other. I don't do sit-ups. I have done leg raises in the past, but not sit-ups. The idea was to keep going until one of use failed.
We eventually stopped. What really suprised me was thinking "This is supposed to be hard" and except for a
couple of hard throws that I had to reach for I felt like I could do this while eating or something(I know, just a picture..).

The only "abs" training I have done in years is kettlebell swings and getups. No plank, situps, whatever. Really nice effect.