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Other/Mixed High Intensity Interval Training

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
I can imagine, i only have a speed rope. I was surprised at the stimulus i was getting in the upper body and abs as well.

That is why I use jumprope, and confirmed compared to resistance band sprint in place, my HR got higher faster and I felt it in my upper body more.

I use a homemade ball bearing jumprope with fairly lightweight braided nylon cord 1/4”. This forces me to use more arm movement to drive the rope.
 

ali

Level 6 Valued Member
If you want to do the tabata protocol, make sure you add lots of aerobic zone 2.

This is where isolating one aspect of an athlete's training programme can be misleading....the original tabata protocol was applied to elite endurance athletes who had already acquired an aerobic base. In a given week, from easy to hard (tabata) 80 % of training volume was done at an easy pace. The hard was very hard, (the remaining 20%).
It could be the icing on the metabolic cake or it could be the straw that breaks the camel's metabolic back, or in this case the heart.
 

LarryB

Level 6 Valued Member
If you want to do the tabata protocol, make sure you add lots of aerobic zone 2.

This is where isolating one aspect of an athlete's training programme can be misleading....the original tabata protocol was applied to elite endurance athletes who had already acquired an aerobic base. In a given week, from easy to hard (tabata) 80 % of training volume was done at an easy pace. The hard was very hard, (the remaining 20%).
It could be the icing on the metabolic cake or it could be the straw that breaks the camel's metabolic back, or in this case the heart.
I’ve been doing strict MAF 3 times a week since January. I’m looking to add speed workouts in as i prep for the Chicago marathon.
 

NormanOsborn

Level 5 Valued Member
I'm currently working through Swing Hard 1.0 again. The program finishes in two weeks. After that, I think I'll switch to Hill Sprints/Repeats for the rest of summer and into autumn, until the weather makes training outside too risky.

There are a number of hills in my area, ranging from 60metres to 150metres to monsters over 250 metres.
 
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North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Tried :20 on :20 off this am. Was definitely more sustainable but i think i will keep adding :10 until i find the magic ratio.

I found the value I could maintain for 12-15 repeats at the same power output, tweaked the rest and specific interval count.

The thing about jumprope is you hit a physical limit rpm beyond which no matter how fresh, you simply cannot go any faster with a given rope.

Set a timer and see how long you can maintain that output. Build interval count, work:rest ratio etc around that basic “set”.

I imagine you could do this with a lot of activities, but as I mentioned earlier-any activity that can be sustained beyond a VERY short duration should be reworked or swapped. By Tabata definition the work is about 170%VO2 max with incomplete recovery.
 

Anders

Level 6 Valued Member
Pavel seems to divide conditioning into three parts:

1) That driven by Creatine Phosphate
2) That driven by Glycogen.
3) That driven by fat.

He seems to enjoy 1 and 3 because they are not producing too much lactic acid.

The Liss versus HIIT conversation. Is one about pulse. It is better to have high effort and high pulse for a short time, or to have a moderate raised pulse for a longer time. A lot of research seems to be saying that HIIT is more effective. But does HIIT have to involve a lot of lactic acid ?

Would S&S be considered good enough HIIT ?
 

Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
Pavel seems to divide conditioning into three parts:

1) That driven by Creatine Phosphate
2) That driven by Glycogen.
3) That driven by fat.

The Three Energy Systems

Science provided the breakdown of the Three Energy System; which has been discussed on this site.

The type of diet dictates, to some degree, dictates the Training Protocol.

He seems to enjoy 1 and 3 because they are not producing too much lactic acid.

Lactate

1) Build of L:actate in the musles decrease force production; Limit Strength, Power, and Speed.

2) Training that produces Lactate is also responsible for producing a downstream anabolic effect, increasing muscle mass.

Thus, the Traditional Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy Training Protocol increase Lactate, which trigger and increase in muslce mass.

A Measure of Athletic Success

Lactate is essential to the exercising process. It helps bolster the mitochondria, energy powerhouses inside each of your muscle cells. Increase the number of mitochondria in your cells, and you'll improve your stamina and strength. High-intensity interval training in which you do short bouts of very strenuous exercise at or near your lactate threshold followed by recovery is especially effective in developing your lactate threshold. The better able you are to process lactate, the greater your ability to push high levels of performance.

Endurance Capacity


Part of increasing Endurance Capacity means increasing Lactate Recovery, as well a VO2 Max.

Lactate and Lactic Acid

They are not the same.

It is similar the to the misunderstand of an individual in Ketosis equating to Ketoacidosis.
 
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Anders

Level 6 Valued Member
I guess the conversation is not so much about lactic acid, as it is about how much lactic acid is too much.

Peter Attia operates with his definition of zone 2, which is at or below 2 millimoles of lactic acid pr. liter of blood.
Pavel is not giving such a concrete definition but he seems to be saying that high levels of lactic acid is particularly draining to the body, and should be used it modest dosis for most of us.

My personal experience as an average human being is that what Pavel says about this is quite true. Keeping the lactic acid low makes you wonder 60 minutes after training whether or not you really trained. On the other hand: Training with high levels of lactic acid makes you really know and feel that you trained hard, perhaps a couple of days later too.

**
The science I have read also seems to me to be not so relevant always. They seem to look at people who either do LISS or HIIT. Then they say that HIIT is more effective, or equally effective with less training dosis.

What would be interesting would be:

1) Provided time was not a factor what would be most efficient ?

2) Provided time was not a factor what would be most healthy ? ( in terms of training injuries, days of sick leaves from work, ability to reduce anxiety and depression)

3) What kind of training (aerobic or LISS) is best in terms of combining it with other ways of training/sports.


Most research is geared towards answering important questions or coach potatoes. If a sedentary person only want to train one hour pr. week, what should he do. But that question is not so relevant for us.
 

Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
high levels of lactic acid is particularly draining to the body, and should be used it modest dosis for most of us.

Absolutely

As you stated, minimizing Lactic Acid is should be the Training Objective.

Training with high levels of lactic acid makes you really know and feel that you trained hard,
Hyperbolic Analogy

As I have previously mentioned, one Head Footballs Coach believes that unless his players need to be pushed to the level of puking or come close to puking in a training session. He and the players "Feel that they really trained hard."

That is an idiotic approach to training like continuing to achieve higher lactic acid levels to really know your trained hard.

The same applies to Delayed Onset of Soreness. Some individual believe soreness mean that you know you trained hard.

Then they say that HIIT is more effective, or equally effective with less training dosis.

HIITs Effectiveness

1) It increases anerobic and aerobic capacity at the same time, which is a Training Paradox. The benefits
of both are achieved.

2) It is more efficient. As the article and multiple other research articles have stated, HIIT's result can be achieve in around 10 minutes compared to am hour of LISS.

Hourly Wage Aanalogy

HIIT is comparative to making let's say $30 and hour.

LISS is comparable to making $15 a hour.

Why not work fewer hours and make the same amount of money?
1) Provided time was not a factor what would be most efficient ?

Intensity Is The Factor.

When Intensity goes up, Time goes down.

When Intensity goes down, Time goes up.

2) Provided time was not a factor what would be most healthy ?

Time Is A Factor

"You can train hard or long but not both."
Vince Gironda

As noted above, Time has an Inverse Relationship to Intensity.

3) What kind of training (aerobic or LISS) is best in terms of combining it with other ways of training/sports.

The Law of Specificity

The Sport or Activity is the determinate facotor of writing and executing an optimal Training Program.

If a sedentary person only want to train one hour pr. week, what should he do.

Sedentary People

HIIT provides greater benefits that LISS.

a) Shorter Train Time. Three HIIT Sprint Trainign Session per week of 10 minutes amounts to 30 minutes of Total Training for the week.

This research was previously posted.

However, Sedentary People are not likely to do that.

b) Both Anerobic and Aerobic Capacity are increase. LISS does not increase Anerobic Capacity.

c) HIIT increase Metabolic Rate for hour after a Training Session. LISS does not.

Something's Better Than Nothing

For less motivated individual, LISS will provide some health benefits.

The key to maintaining an exercise program, diet, etc., is to find something you enjoy.

If LISS does that then do it.
 
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North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
I guess the conversation is not so much about lactic acid, as it is about how much lactic acid is too much.

The conversation has many twists and turns. HIIT production of lactate is different from longer duration efforts in that the metabolism is spread over larger area and longer timeframe, or should be.

Following HIIT, I do not ever feel wiped with exception of first few minutes.

From my understanding, the heavy use of glycolysis is only problematic due to the metabolic by-products more so than the lactic acid itself.

In terms of HIIT vs LISS the studies only measure certain metrics VO2 max, capillary density, mitochondrial density. They don’t compare athletes on a battery of aerobic activities using either/or for prep, pretty sure we can guarantee as the duration increases the HIIT athletes will fall away.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Indeed, many twists and turns. HIIT methods and LISS methods are both tools that can help one achieve a training goal. HIIT will not work for some things period. Likewise neither will LISS. And they will both work for some things, but at different investment costs. Some goals will also require the intelligent use of both.
Comes back (always) to specificity and goals...
 
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