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Nutrition High Protein Nutrition necessary when doing Pavel Tsatsoulines 2x5?

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BeneStrong

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Hello,
I have a theoretical question. Is an protein rich Nutrition actually necessary when doing Pavels 2x5 Program?
Because Pavel mentioned that its possible to increase strength without gaining mass(or just a little bit), since this kind of strength is mainly neurological. And neurological processes don´t need protein.
 
There is a correlation between muscle mass and strength but it is not linear nor it is black and white. However, I would argue that, for a consistent trainee, there will come a point where at least a moderate amount of good protein will help increase her strength.
 
Hello,

BeneStrong said:
I have a theoretical question. Is an protein rich Nutrition actually necessary when doing Pavels 2x5 Program?
Click to expand...
It is not necessary. An increase of muscle mass, if you put a lot of tension in it, will make you stronger. Then between 2 people who put the same tension, the one with more muscle mass will be stronger.

However, it is not strictly necessary. For instance, calisthenics guys are very strong, but they are pretty light.

To sum up, proteins will surely help you, but tension and technique will also play a role ;)

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

@BeneStrong
To a certain extent, training in itself will make you stronger. Then, nutrition will help you to get even stronger and / or breaking plateau.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Antti said:
There is a correlation between muscle mass and strength but it is not linear nor it is black and white. However, I would argue that, for a consistent trainee, there will come a point where at least a moderate amount of good protein will help increase her strength.
Click to expand...

I agree with this but we must be clear about our terms. There is a strong linear correlation between muscle cross sectional area and force production. Strength, as defined by the amount of weight lifted for a one repetition maximum in a particular lift is different. Strength involves an element of skill in addition to force production. Skill can play a huge role (i.e., barbell snatch) or a lesser role (machine based bench press), so the correlation of muscle mass and strength depends on the movement.
 
You do not absoluteley need high protein for strength gains.
But a high protein diet is def a good idea both in terms of any training goal aswell as in terms of overall health!
However no need to go overboard.
~2g per kg of bodyweight should be fine
 
Hello,

@Marc
Protein intakes depends on your goal : maintain or increase muscle mass. 1g or so is enough to maintain, as @Steve Freides said. If you go higher, about 1,5 or more, it is IMO for muscle mass gain.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Marc said:
However no need to go overboard.
~2g per kg of bodyweight should be fine
Click to expand...
Steve Freides said:
@Marc, I'd argue for 1 gr/kg is sufficient for most people's needs. The US government recommends 0.8 gr/kg.
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Of course, like always, all of this is debatable, but I'm with Steve on this. Many people outside of the realm of bodybuilding would already consider 2g/kg to be overboard.
@BeneStrong try for yourself. Go higher protein for a couple of weeks, then lower and see how you feel.
 
I weigh around 190 currently. I try to take in at least 100 but never more than 200 a day (unless its eat till you pass out steak or something...)

I found when I am on a heavier program that I go higher naturally to 150-200 on a lift day.
 
Hello,

Steve Freides said:
The US government recommends 0.8 gr/kg
Click to expand...
+1
How much protein do you need every day? - Harvard Health Blog

If memory serves, going more than 1.5g/kg can tend to toxic ketone creation. It taxes kidneys which have to "over work" to compensate the additional protein intake. It can be a cause of dehydration. But once again, everyone is different.

IMO, targetting between 0.8 and 1.3 can be the right spot to maintain and / or slightly increase muscle mass. Going beyond that threshold would require a medical advise to be sure not doing something wrong.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
When talking about grams per weight, I think that it is important to make the difference between total mass and lean body mass. gr/kg means different things when your bodyfat is 10% than when it is 30%.

I haven't seen any negative issues for high protein intake in recent studies. On the other hand, I've seen studies that debunk the myth that high protein intake causes kidney problems, for example.

When it comes to seeking strength, it is probably wise to think about what the goal is, as in how far do you want to go. I will say though, that in the savannah the bigger lion generally always wins. We also have weight classes in weightlifting and powerlifting. If absolute strength is the goal, one is often better to eat a lot. That said, modern bodybuilding is a whole another ballgame - no sorry, a beauty pageant.
 
Hello,

Antti said:
When talking about grams per weight, I think that it is important to make the difference between total mass and lean body mass. gr/kg means different things when your bodyfat is 10% than when it is 30%
Click to expand...
That is true.

Some moves require a good lean body mass / total mass ratio, such as pull up. Other moves don't, such as DL.

To a certain extent, additional protein intake can be good if done properly:
> related to lean body mass
> not exceeding a certain threshold. Or, if you want to go higher, better see a med first.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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