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Barbell High Rep Deadlifts

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@JeffC, this is what I can come up with for math:

Code:
Weights in lbs
         Bodyweight      Weight Lifted     Wilkes Points
JeffC           204                305             87.12
SteveF          155                258             87.41

That's without figuring age. If we do that, we already looked it up the other day. You're 39 - 40 is the benchmark so no benefit until you're 41. I'm 65, 1.48 benefit as discussed above. Now we have:

Code:
Weights in lbs
         Bodyweight      Weight Lifted     Wilkes Points McCullough Coefficient   Weight to be Lifted AMRAP
JeffC           204                305             87.12                   1.00          305
SteveF          155                258             87.41                  1.480          175

That means me deadlifting 175 lbs. for reps. My DL stuff is in kilos, so that's 79.4 kg, so we'll call it 80 kg.

Bar = 20 kg, red plates = 50 kg, competition-style clamps = 5 kg, so

Bar + red + 2.5 + comp clamps = 80 kg, for reps, double overhand.

Will upload link in a minute - have to go do this first ...

EDIT - link:



20 reps - grip was getting iffy, would have managed another few, can't say how many, before I'd have dropped the bar. My son took the video and counted reps for me.

-S-
 
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It was 80 kg. I start my deadlifts at 120, 110 if I’m having a slow day. It was way too light and, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I think the age compensation is much too generous. But I almost never do more than 5 reps in a set so it was completely uncharted territory for me. My most recent competition max are 162.5 kg at 66kg and 165 kg at 67.5 kg, both about 3 years ago. I use 160 as my guesstimated max, so that was 50%.

-S-
 
@Steve Freides Do feel like this would have a place in your training?

To me it’s more like a workout or challenge. Leaving one rep on the floor of course.

Wednesday, June. 17 will be my next 20 rep attempt. I will try to get video. My space is cramped and does not translate well to video.

Its too early to gauge Bear/Ladder Deadlifts or one top set, but I feel like the ladders were heavier, which has to be better, right, and were easy to recover from.

20 reps over 20-30 min made me stronger than 20 reps in 1-2min. Sounds simple.

Is the top set of PTTP or Wendler 5/3/1 the driver of strength or is the back off/assistance work/volume the driver?
 
Is the top set of PTTP or Wendler 5/3/1 the driver of strength or is the back off/assistance work/volume the driver?

Generally I would say the top set is the driver of strength, and the backoff/assistance work/volume is the driver of hypertrophy. Would you agree? And of course the lines are not really that clear, especially when doing both as part of a program.
 
@Steve Freides Do feel like this would have a place in your training?
No. I don't know if anyone other than me noticed, but you could tell my breathing changed around rep 16. As with kettlebell snatches for reps, I'd been taking one breath per rep, but for the last few, I took one at the top and one at the bottom. For me, this isn't strength training. It is a test of some sort and, if one considers it a relevant test, one still doesn't need to do it often.

This goes back to some long-standing StrongFirst principles: why do one set of 10 when you can do 2 sets of 5 and use more weight? Overall, 10 reps at a higher rate will make you stronger than 1 set of 10 will.

In this case, I did notice I had a nice forearm pump after my 20 reps @ 80 kg and my grip was starting to slip. I also had a nice pump in my forearms after my deadlift workout two days prior, and it was 7 sets, between 2 and 5 reps each, and weights between 120 and 140 kg. And only one of those sets was double overhand. I did 24 reps instead of 20, and the average weight was someone in the 125 kg range instead of 80.

To each his own - for me, once my breathing started to change, it truly became something other than strength training.

20 reps over 20-30 min made me stronger than 20 reps in 1-2min. Sounds simple.
Exactly.

-S-
 
Yesterday was 70% x 3, 80% x 3, 90% x 3+.

I got 335lb x 12. This time from a dead stop. Breathing at the top and pausing on the ground. Harder for me than touch and go reps.

My grip and my breathing held up and I have a true output on that set. Took a while for my thumb to come back to life though. I like having a goal for the day.

The program as a whole drives strength not just the AMRAP sets.

I did 18” Stone to 48” Load and Kroc Row to finish. I have been getting over 20 reps on my Dumbbell so it’s time to add weight.

Next week is my singles week were I will cap my top set at a goal number of reps, and do Joker Sets. They are accommodations for assistance work where you limit your top set for heavier or volume work.
 
@JeffC, thought I'd post an update of a sort. I'm doing a PlanStrong Cycle that called, on today's session, to finish with 120 kg x 3 and 120 kg x 5. I decided to go for 120 kg x 8. In my training, I mix a narrow sumo and a conventional stance, and also mix double overhand and box mixed grip. For this, I went with my favored stance, conventional, and my favored grip, left_under + right_over.

I got 8 reps and certainly could have cranked out at least two more, maybe more. I put them down pretty quickly, a sort of "half fall" with the bar, not a total drop, kept my hands on, lowered the top half a bit slowly and then let the bottom fall out.

120 kg = 240 + 24 = 264 lbs, a 50% increase from the 80 kg I did when last we spoke on this subject. I don't think I'm too far from getting 16, probably could have gotten 12 today. I weighted 155 lb this morning, so I get 1.56 x bodyweight for the weight I used, which is in the same ballpark as your 305 lb @ 204.

What do you think? Maybe I should try to match you on Wilkes point without regard to age, or bodyweight multiple without Wilkes correction but corrected for age, or something along those lines. You asked if I thought this might have a place in my training? I enjoyed today's session and don't feel like it cost me anything in terms of recovery.

-S-
 
If I am getting 16 reps on my top set am I going too light?

High Repetition Deadlifts

I am not a proponent of High Repetition Deadlifts.

As Dr Tom McLaughlin noted in his Biomechanics articles in Powerlifting USA years ago, "The lower back is quickly and easily overtrained".

Adding to that is the back isn't geared toward High Repetition Training.

I have pushed 20 reps by breathing at the top of each rep.

Cluster Set Training

Any break/rest period between repetition in the Deadlift or any other exercise turn it into Cluster Set Training.

Thus, your pausing for breathing rest period falls into Cluster Set Training; which is fine.

With that in mind, Cluster Set Training is a more effective approach for Deadlifting.

Savid Set Deadlifts


This is Cluster Set Deadlift Training with around up to around 60% of a 1 Repetition Max.

This is a more effective method of increasing Power and Strength, as well as increasing muscle mass to some degree.

Traditional Hypertrophy Set Training

This approached to exercises that are performed for non-stop repetition; no rest breaks between any repetition.

The downside of Traditional Hypertrophy Training is that Power and Strength dramatically decrease, if the focus is specifically on it.
 
I am not a proponent of High Repetition Deadlifts.
Me, neither.

Once in a while, it's fun.

For advanced lifters with rock solid technique, for a cycle, sure, if it's in keeping with your goals.

But as a steady diet or "normal" method of training, it's not something I recommend. And the deadlift is technical enough for most of us that, if you really want to improve your 1RM, you will need to practice heavy deadlifts - for me, it's important to compete from time to time because I don't like to pull really heavy except in competition, and I enjoy competing a couple of times a year.

-S-
 
What muscles are 'the back'? I thought most axial muscles are quite used to constantly being loaded, we do e.g. swings for many repetitions. Perhaps it's dependent on intensity.
Yes. Swings are usually done with a much lighter load.

-S-
 
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