Hinge vs Pull?

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by Nate, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Nate

    Nate Double-Digit Post Count

    So I understand that a deadlift is a hinge and a row is a pull. But I've seen people classify swings, cleans and snatches as hinges or pulls interchangeably. My hips are clearly hinging, but my back is worked too... what's the rule?
    thx
     
  2. CraigAlexanderWigham

    CraigAlexanderWigham Double-Digit Post Count

    The Swing, Clean and Snatch all have both I believe.
    The Swing has a hike pass (pull), a hinge and we pull the arm tight to the body during the Swing.
    The Clean has a hike pass, a hinge and a pull at the top just to direct the bell to the rack safely.
    The Snatch has a hike pass, a hinge, a high pull to direct the bell and then a tiny push.

    If I had to place them though I'd place the Swing & Snatch in the Hinge category and I'd place the Clean in the Pull category. This goes for both StrongFirst and Sport style.
     
  3. jca17

    jca17 Helping Make Others Stronger

    I believe there are two uses of the word and that's part of the confusion. People will use the word "pull" synonymously with deadlift, or big hinge movements: "When I was on that program, I was pulling 365 for reps".

    Then there's the use you'll see when people break down fundamental compound lifts, talking about upper body push, upper body pull, lower body push, lower body pull. By lower body pull, we're talking compound movements that mainly focus on the posterior chain: the muscles along the backside of the hips and legs. Or even "push, pull, squat, hinge", where pull is referring to an upper body pull like chinups or rows, since hinge already is understood to cover the lower body "pull".

    That's at least the way I think I've seen them used. Open to correction :)
     
  4. Nate

    Nate Double-Digit Post Count

    "Note: I consider the double clean to be a pull, which I pair here with a push (the press). As for the snatch, although it combines several patterns, I consider it primarily as an explosive hinge, which I pair with the double front squat."

    This is from the new Reg Park article and I've seen similar comments. SW, CL & SN just all seem to be both hinge and pull, making 50% of the big 6 hinge/pulls (which I can understand from a health perspective). I'm just seeing if there's a difference I'm missing...
    Thx!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  5. Kettlebelephant

    Kettlebelephant Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum

    To me a pull in the sense of the foundational human movements (push, pull, squat, hinge, carry) is every movement where you're leading with the elbow/pulling through the elbow.

    To me the swing or deadlift is not a pull, because the elbow stays completely straight. There's no intent to move the object (KB or barbell) towards/into/behind your body by "using" the elbow.
    KB cleans and snatches are mixed movements.
    For the clean you hinge first. Once the hinge is completed and you're standing in the plank the KB floats from hip height to chest height. During that float you pull through your elbow to reel it in.***
    For the snatch it's quite similar. You complete the hinge and the KB starts floating up. During that phase you slightly pull the KB towards head level (via a movement that's similar to the KB high pull) to get it into position for the "punch through". It's more guiding the KB than actually pulling. That's why I can accept the statement @Nate quoted from the Easy reg Park article.

    ***see this clip to know that I mean. Stop the vid at 0:42, set the speed to 0.25 and watch his arm/elbow.


    I get the overall confusion about the two terms and @jca17 did a good job explaining where it comes from.
     
    Steve W. likes this.
  6. Nate

    Nate Double-Digit Post Count

    So when we are trying to balance PPSH in programming, we're doubling up on hinge but I guess that's acceptable because its typically under developed.
     
  7. Maine-ah KB

    Maine-ah KB Helping Make Others Stronger

    So I've been following easy strength for 13 days with Pullups as my (Pull) and Cleans as my (hinge). so far so good but I can say that Cleans use simular muscles. It feels closer to a row actually. so from personal experience I can say they can cover the same basic ground work. But to be honest my hing and pull could always be stronger. my kettlebell front squat is limited to my double clean. pull ups strengthen all my upper body work. strong back, strong body.
     
  8. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum

    I view full body rowing as a hinge/big pull, the same as a swing or deadlift. The mechanics are very similar depending on the type of rowing machine you're using. The swing is very much a close relative of a vertical row, if you took a rower and set it up at a 45 or 60 degree angle.

    I view rowing movements that involve mostly stationary hinge position as a pull. T-bar rows, bent rows, cable rows with a stationary seat.
     
  9. Steve W.

    Steve W. Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum

    I agree with @jca17 and @Kettlebelephant: "pull" is a term that is used to refer to different things in different contexts. It's commonly used to refer to hinge drills, but in the Easy Strength context (where "hinge" is a separate category) it's a bent arm pull like any kind of row or pullup.

    Yes, but keep in mind that these classifications are just guidelines for well-rounded programming, the categories aren't really important by themselves.
     

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