Other/Mixed Hiring an online trainer - why not?

[Anna C]

I'm conducting some research to try to help build the market for online training, as so many of our StrongFirst instructors have lost the income of the gym environment during the coronavirus shutdowns.

If you've never hired an online trainer, why not? Select all that apply.

Even if you are not the least bit interested in online training, I'm interested in your input. (Perhaps even especially if you are not interested).

Your responses will help us understand the potential market.

Thank you!

 

[Anders]

Hi,

here are my thoughts. I have had two online trainers in my life, and one diet coach.

With the first trainer, barbell training. It was all about email. Useful information. I got a lot out of it. Set some new records in bench press and military press. But it was a bit lacking in connection due to the format of emails. He was also a strict guy being very found of setting boundaries in terms of how many emails I could send etc etc. He was quite formal and not sharing any personal information. Not that great connection.

The other internet coach also worked the same way. We talked on the phone and I got a lot of feedback. She was more flexible and I got more out of it. Here it was email + phone.

The third is my diet coach. She is like a personal trainer, but I only use her for diet. She sends me recipes and encourages me to try out new food (adult food like soups, meat balls, baking etc). She is very friendly. Very flexible. And very encouraging. I am mostly paying her for being there and supporting me and giving me small tips about what I can do when I want to eat 1 pound of chocolate.

I think as a personal trainer or diet coach your are providing different stuff: 1) information 2) encouragement 3) a connection to a positive person, supportive talk when times get hard, kind of like a friend.

I work in the health sector and I think we have this in common with personal trainers that there is the sweet spot between boundaries and generosity.

So in short: 1) It is a bit more interesting to meet in person, than just over the phone/mail. Still phone is still quite okay. 2) The more knowledge the coach has the better. 3) the coach has to be friendly, positive and in some way a person who is content with their life. If the person has good energy, that is really almost an requirement. 4) The same applies here as everywhere else. Do more than what you promise. And make a big effort to help your clients.

 

[Papa Georgio]

So I opt to do 1-on-1 sessions (which is not an option now). Because I live an hour a way, I only do the 1-on-1 sessions every couple of weeks. Because of this I still do some online interaction with messaging and videos sometimes. I personally don't like videoing myself because:
1. my phone sucks. between the poor video quality and always running low on memory space. It's kind of a pain.
2. Everyone knows the camera adds 10 lbs.

Kidding aside, I do recognize the value of coaching and especially taking videos. You can pause or slow down videos and really put your technique under a microscope.

@Anna C Thanks for posting this. It kind of reminded me why I need to quit making excuses, upgrade my phone and up my game.

 

[Anna C]

Hi,

here are my thoughts. I have had two online trainers in my life, and one diet coach.

With the first trainer, barbell training. It was all about email. Useful information. I got a lot out of it. Set some new records in bench press and military press. But it was a bit lacking in connection due to the format of emails. He was also a strict guy being very found of setting boundaries in terms of how many emails I could send etc etc. He was quite formal and not sharing any personal information. Not that great connection.

The other internet coach also worked the same way. We talked on the phone and I got a lot of feedback. She was more flexible and I got more out of it. Here it was email + phone.

The third is my diet coach. She is like a personal trainer, but I only use her for diet. She sends me recipes and encourages me to try out new food (adult food like soups, meat balls, baking etc). She is very friendly. Very flexible. And very encouraging. I am mostly paying her for being there and supporting me and giving me small tips about what I can do when I want to eat 1 pound of chocolate.

I think as a personal trainer or diet coach your are providing different stuff: 1) information 2) encouragement 3) a connection to a positive person, supportive talk when times get hard, kind of like a friend.

I work in the health sector and I think we have this in common with personal trainers that there is the sweet spot between boundaries and generosity.

So in short: 1) It is a bit more interesting to meet in person, than just over the phone/mail. Still phone is still quite okay. 2) The more knowledge the coach has the better. 3) the coach has to be friendly, positive and in some way a person who is content with their life. If the person has good energy, that is really almost an requirement. 4) The same applies here as everywhere else. Do more than what you promise. And make a big effort to help your clients.

Very insightful, @Anders ! Thank you.

Good points about email, phone. Now people have ways to use FB messenger, Instagram DM, and other apps. Some work better than others and not all are equally preferred by provider and client.

Good points about support. I agree -- so much of the value is just feeling like there is someone there supporting your efforts and helping you get past the obstacles.

Excellent point about the sweets pot between boundaries and generosity. I think that's one of the hardest things about finding a match between provider and client -- there's no way to know if the balance is off until a fairly large time investment has been made.

Great point about meeting in person - if there is an opportunity to meet at least once, that enhances things quite a bit. So even remotely, it's a plus to select someone that you can potentially meet up with initially or periodically.

I agree, important qualities:

• knowledge
• friendly and positive
• good energy
• generous
• quality service

 

[Benjamin Renaud]

I think my training area doesn't lend itself well to setting up a computer/phone to film. Plus my phone is old and video quality would be poor at best.

I'm not sure I understand the value of online training either. How does a session go, what can someone expect out of it etc.

I've had 1 on 1 coaching and workshops though. Both I enjoyed very much and really got a lot out of them.

 

[Anna C]

So I opt to do 1-on-1 sessions (which is not an option now). Because I live an hour a way, I only do the 1-on-1 sessions every couple of weeks. Because of this I still do some online interaction with messaging and videos sometimes. I personally don't like videoing myself because:
1. my phone sucks. between the poor video quality and always running low on memory space. It's kind of a pain.
2. Everyone knows the camera adds 10 lbs.

Kidding aside, I do recognize the value of coaching and especially taking videos. You can pause or slow down videos and really put your technique under a microscope.

@Anna C Thanks for posting this. It kind of reminded me why I need to quit making excuses, upgrade my phone and up my game.

lol on the camera adding 10 lbs. Yeah seeing yourself on video is even worse than hearing your own voice. But once you get over the unpleasantness, it's no longer a problem and can be really helpful.

 

[Benjamin Renaud]

Yeah seeing yourself on video is even worse than hearing your own voice.

I'd rate the two as being equally painful. ?

 

[Anders]

1) I don't think boundaries and generosity is about business strategy. I think it is about the person. You are the same person whether you are operating in the role as partner or as coach. So it is about cultivating the ability to confront and cultivating the ability to be caring and generous.
2) I think many men, especially buff middle aged men with good salary, have an easy time setting boundaries. Sometimes however it is almost like they think that all problems can be solved by them just setting more boundaries. That is just not so. Contrary, some women might have hard time setting boundaries, but have a easier way of being generous/agreeing. These women will then tend to be just more and more generous and hope that this will create some respect. In short: I imagine it is important to be well balanced as a coach. Have a certain knowledge about your inner demons. Get some feedback from your friends and family where your weak points are.
3) Body-shame. Perfectionism. These are topics that I think many clients are suffering from. The coach probably should have some knowledge about it, and maybe also be aware of her/his own body-shame and perfectionism. It is difficult to give support to people who are suffering from body-shame/perfectionism if you yourself have an unacknowledged tendency to perfectionism/body-shame.
4) Maybe also be aware of culture differences. I come from Norway. We use words like awesome and epic twice in our lifetimes, while Americans seem to use it in every conversation.

 

[Molson]

Thanks Anna starting the conversation. For me:

1. Space limitations. My courage corner is on my balcony. I can’t get a side angle when filming due to it’s depth. The alternative of training inside is limited due to family/kids. I could train inside in the evening, but I avoid it due to recovery, and early morning I could wake them up if it gets noisy. We seen on the videos here other similar issues, like bad lighting and angles in basements or similar.

2. Unknown costs. This obviously applies to live 1-1 sessions same as online. But it is a factor. People don’t know what to expect until they get started. You usually don’t know how many sessions you need to achieve what you want. Personally I did two private sessions with a SFG and it was great to review the basic lifts. I aim to do it once a year. But the cost of it makes me think twice, I could buy a mid sized bell for those two sessions. I know it pays of, we seen it reported here multiple times. But for someone training only for keeping fit, with no pro ambitions this could really be a factor.

Edit: just to add to the second point. In the international environment, if someone would like to arrange a session with someone foreign, the costs might be even harder to guess. And it feels just rude to ask 10 couches for their hourly price to get the view on what costs to expect.

 

[Bauer]

I have hired an online coach once, for a 3 month period. It was end-range training and I hired him to get access to his collection of drills and the specific programming. The program was pretty exhausting, but it worked.

I could film myself and upload the vids and once per week we would skype and discuss how it went. Based on that I would get customized training plans week after week, which was very motivating. However, something that was missing was the personal rapport. We know from psychotherapy studies that the personal relationship is the most important factor for the success of an intervention/therapy.

I also like the middle ground approach by Aleks Salkin and others, offering a private facebook group for their subscribers or clients, giving the possibility for feedback and exchange.

 

[william bad butt]

I have an online coach. I had 1 coach for about 5 months in 2017. And now I've had one for the last year or so. It was a very good investment for me. I plan on continuing with the service. So I researched the appropriate person, in fact, the most qualified person I could find, because I wanted to make sure my coach had "walked the walk".

It's important to find a coach who's willing to help you pursue your goals. Mine were simple. (1) Make my back healthier and (2) Become as strong as possible [without gaining weight] via the 3 power lifts - which subsequently led to me competing in power lifting. Also, you need to figure out, ahead of time, how much you are willing to spend on an online coach. You can Google typical rates. It is my experience that online coaching is very inexpensive compared to live coaching.

My coach and I mostly communicate via email. He does all my programming (but I of course have input into that programming). I video my final top sets of the power lifts and he helps with form. For complicated discussions where email is not sufficient, we use Skype. Maybe once a month. Also, once in the last year, I have been fortunate enough to stop by his gym for 1-on-1 training for a few hours (when I was passing through his town on other business).

I lift alone. I don't have a support system. Online Coaching provides a level of accountability that I would not accomplish alone - even though I believe myself to be very disciplined! I have made tremendous progress in the last year. 2 things: (1) Every week I write a summary email and attach videos for my coach. The act of doing this forces me to follow the plan. I can't take Saturday off, because what am I going to do , write to my coach that I skipped squats to go out drinking with my friends? (2) Without my coach, I would have program hopped too often. I'd be switching programs every 2 months. Left to my own devices, I would subconsciously want to make my programming easier. Also, boredom would set in and I'd want to jump to something else. Online Coaching forces a level of discipline and consistency that one cannot achieve on their own. And Consistency, is the most important thing that drives progress over time.

 

[Al Ciampa]

@Anna C, I’ve learned over the years that my coaching and mentoring style need to meet my personality at least halfway, or it won’t work. Prior to my online Strength & Wellness Center, the very best method that worked for me and my students was the attitude of working for free, but stamping a compensation on it. So, I prefer emails, but I make myself available to a student through any medium, and I’d travel to see them if they were close enough. Some have visited and stayed at my place. The compensation is either a one-time fee, or some flat monthly rate. In some instances, I do way more work than I get paid for; in others, it’s the opposite. Does is even out across all my students? Probably not, but since it’s my passion, who the hell cares?

That all said, I am no longer in the business of motivating students. I match the energy that the individual gives, and the relationship will go where it goes.

Now, it’s a little different as everything is contained in my online “bank”, and the entire community helps each individual. I provide a leadership of sorts, fill in the details and field questions as they come up, and introduce new science or issues. It’s probably more work on my part than in the past, but I receive more enjoyment as well.

My 30+ year perspective is that if you’re not passionate about health and fitness, do yourself a favor and do something else. This is the wrong business to focus on money. Online or otherwise. YMMV.

 

[Anna C]

Great conversations points. @Anders @Papa Georgio @Benjamin Renaud @Molson @Bauer @william bad butt @Al Ciampa - Thank you!

I asked the instructors some questions in the Instructor FB group:

• How many of you do Live (Zoom, Skype, Facetime, etc.), How many do Correspondence (Uploaded videos, email, messaging)?
  • They were about evenly split, 19 votes each. Most said Either/both (student's preference), 39 votes.
• When a student contacts you for Online training, what do you PRIMARILY provide?
  • Technique instruction and coaching, either live or by video (39 votes)
  • Training planing/programming, and coaching execution of the plan/program (37 votes)
  • Guiding or leading training sessions, like traditional personal training or group training, either live or by video/correspondence (22 votes)

So I think that is the first thing it would be helpful for both student and instructor to clarify, is what is being offered, and what is being sought? And I think that's most helpful on the instructor end, to clearly describe in some sort of product offering the types of services they know how to provide. Because a prospective student doesn't always know what is available, how things work, etc.

I have so many other thoughts on this, I'll have to collect them and think on it for a while.

My objective in doing this is to help the StrongFirst instructor community. I have been both a provider and receiver of online training and currently I'm doing neither -- I don't have any students currently (my full time job is enough/too much right now, and this forum meets my need to provide some sharing of knowledge), and I don't currently have a dedicated coach for myself at the moment. But I have a lot of experience with and thoughts on both scenarios.

Mostly I think the realm is an undeveloped market -- especially now with all the gyms closed. The instructor/provider community can do better in defining their offering. The strudent/market base is a huge untapped potential that we can start to understand, and provide service to. The end result is better training and more strength and health for everyone... And continuing to spread the word and impact of StrongFirst.

Great discussion.

 

[Oscar]

I had very good results with online coaching. I had to do some changes to S&S due to patellar tendonitis, and my coach had me doing squat get ups, which served me very well for more than a year, when I could return to regular get ups. He also helped me with progression tactics for 1HS.

I think online coaching works very well if the student takes responsibility for her/his own training. I often see what I call "excercise babysitters": personal trainers who even count reps for the student. In those cases, it's very common to see the trainer allow poor form and other calamities. If the student is looking for a babysitter, online coaching won't work. If, on the other hand, the student will take her/his own training by the horns, then the assistance and guidance of an online coach can be great.

One important thing is that I had great respect for the coach before we started, as I knew him from this forum. That played a key role to me. I dont know if I would feel comfortable working with an online coach I found on google. Forums, Facebook pages and that sort of social media can play an important role in this cases in my opinion.

 

[Anna C]

I had an idea yesterday maybe you guys can help develop.

What if there was some sort of bidding arrangement? Someone wanting training could fill out a brief form stating what they want. "I want someone to teach me how to do kettlebell swings." "I want someone to write a 3-month program to improve my deadlift." "I want guidance to improve my training and nutrition habits over the next year." "I want someone to guide me through the ROP." "I want someone to coach me to Beast Tamer."

Then instructors could submit a brief proposal/bid to the trainee. "I have X/Y/Z experience and certifications. We can meet once per week on skype and you can email me any questions between sessions. I have successfully guided 10 students through this program and I think I can help you. Here's how my pricing works."

Then the student would select and pursue whatever bid they wanted to, and the two parties would make the arrangement between them as is currently done now.

The host for the process (StrongFirst or other) cold charge a small fee for the service to the student for the initial listing.

Would anyone be interested in that, or ever seen anything like it? I'm thinking of the show "Shipping Wars"...

 

[Molson]

I had an idea yesterday maybe you guys can help develop.

What if there was some sort of bidding arrangement? Someone wanting training could fill out a brief form stating what they want. "I want someone to teach me how to do kettlebell swings." "I want someone to write a 3-month program to improve my deadlift." "I want guidance to improve my training and nutrition habits over the next year." "I want someone to guide me through the ROP." "I want someone to coach me to Beast Tamer."

Then instructors could submit a brief proposal/bid to the trainee. "I have X/Y/Z experience and certifications. We can meet once per week on skype and you can email me any questions between sessions. I have successfully guided 10 students through this program and I think I can help you. Here's how my pricing works."

Then the student would select and pursue whatever bid they wanted to, and the two parties would make the arrangement between them as is currently done now.

The host for the process (StrongFirst or other) cold charge a small fee for the service to the student for the initial listing.

Would anyone be interested in that, or ever seen anything like it? I'm thinking of the show "Shipping Wars"...

Anna, from a client’s perspective I definitely agree some kind of brief resume would be useful at the start. First none specific and then more specific to client’s needs once they get into contact. I know that some instructors on SF list add their basic info, and it works as you can learn something about the person. With a lot new people receiving certificatons, it obviously makes a big difference between other instances of people with only a name and cert type. But even those who fill in their info, well the standards vary vastly.

I know a really qualified guy (beyond SF) that has almost no info and a link to an outdated website. Maybe he does not care, maybe he does not find clients through this, hard to say.

 

[Alexander Halford]

I think online coaching works very well if the student takes responsibility for her/his own training.

I think this phrase gives the most exact answer to "How it can work". Coach can go bananas trying to invent a marketing strategy on how to attract online clients, if the student is a "client", a "customer", who comes with expectations and demands only, but with no or not sufficient commitment, it will all go to hell. Responsibility and determination, that's the key. Attract someone to go online training it's only a smaller part of the job - that's how me thinks.
The only drawback I can see in the online training, it's a slower learning curve, than doing it in person.

 

[Niek Schokkenbroek]

I think this phrase gives the most exact answer to "How it can work". Coach can go bananas trying to invent a marketing strategy on how to attract online clients, if the student is a "client", a "customer", who comes with expectations and demands only, but with no or not sufficient commitment, it will all go to hell. Responsibility and determination, that's the key. Attract someone to go online training it's only a smaller part of the job - that's how me thinks.
The only drawback I can see in the online training, it's a slower learning curve, than doing it in person.

I am offering online training for a few years now. Mainly basic training for clients who want programs to help them achieve their goals. I use an application called Trainerize through which they will get their program along with exercise videos. Their progress will also be tracked through there.

After my SFG certification I was breaking my head on how to implement my new skills into this. Due to the “inch wide - mile deep” style of methodology and skillset you get, it is very hard to coach when there is no or hardly any review of the form of clients.

Once I manage to complement my set of kettlebells (currently moved back to Europe due to the COVID 19 business and I didn’t manage to convince my wife to bring a kettlebell in stead of clothes... for some reason) I want to make specific videos for drills and develop a course to teach the basic SFG movements with a requirement that a clients provides videos of their form at a regular basis. So I really think it can only work with clients/students who are truly committed and want to put in the work to provide footage to review.

 

[SMalishev]

So, a quick question based off this thread:
Do online coaches mainly coach technique by watching captured footage, or through live sessions?
I previously thought it was all live, and upon thinking about it further, i'm not sure if a live call could provide a good enough framerate for teaching something really fast like the swing.

 

[Anna C]

So, a quick question based off this thread:
Do online coaches mainly coach technique by watching captured footage, or through live sessions?
I previously thought it was all live, and upon thinking about it further, i'm not sure if a live call could provide a good enough framerate for teaching something really fast like the swing.

According to my survey on StrongFirst instructors group, it is about evenly split between live and correspondence with captured footage.