HIRT Tools

Discussion in 'Other' started by Bro Mo, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Bro Mo

    Bro Mo Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I've been thinking about HIRT methods and ways to go from 0 to 100 very quickly. Hill sprints have been my favorite but I've been thinking something like an Airdyne would be a good option for sub-10sec efforts.

    I feel like a rower or other machines have too much delay and or relaxed portion of the movement compared to an airdyne in my experience. Not to say other methods don't work but the airdyne seems like it has a unique ability to really drain a person quickly.
     
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  2. psmith

    psmith Double-Digit Post Count

    A sled should work pretty well and might be more specific to some goals than an Airdyne. But potentially higher impact and you need somewhere to push or pull it. Tradeoffs.
     
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  3. kenaces

    kenaces Double-Digit Post Count

    I bet the Airdyne would work but I haven't tried it. I haven't been on a rower in a while but I don't see why that wouldn't work?

    Macebell 360s were fun. I think with a higher number of repeats my grip might become a limiting factor?

    Burpees also seem to work for me.

    I was surprised when I did Ten-second stationary bike sprints. They didn't work for me. I was smoked and started to get that "lactic acid feeling" after only ~7 EMOM repeats. But I still think this could be a good option if I can get the resistance setting right.

    I tried some EMOM suitcase carries. The workout seemed very easy and I was surprised to see my average HR was much higher than it is with similar KB swing workout.

    I can't do swings right now due to injury so I am playing around with these alternative and am interested to hear what others think?
     
  4. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I think it depends on what definition of HIRT you are using. In terms of a HIIT type session, the Airdyne, Nordick ergometer or other CC ski trainer would seem to be great choices.

    I've adopted the jumprope using a fairly lightweight poly rope that forces me to use a little more limb action to generate speed as opposed to speed ropes where it can all be done at the wrist.

    For more of a grinder movement, sandbag shoulder cleans from the floor can be pretty brutal if done at a quick pace, and its tough to beat KB snatches. Have never used them, but heavy battling ropes probably also capable of ramping up quickly.

    Lateral jumping drills, going from foot to foot are surprisingly tough if you keep a good pace.
     
  5. Bro Mo

    Bro Mo Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I think I understand one of the attributes of HIRT to be the fast rate of PCr depletion and if thats the case, the faster that rate, the better. I think I saw something like sprinting can generate 2,000 watts. I'm not quite sure if anything comes that close though. However, I would imagine an elementary definition could be something like <1k watts to be HIIT and >1k watts to be HIRT?
     
  6. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller Quadruple-Digit Post Count


    I think the rate of PCr depletion would be about the same, or should be anyway. The biggest difference is the use of longer rest periods/shorter work periods.

    HIRT calls for < 15 seconds of work where many HIIT protocols call for 20 second work periods. And then rest periods for HIRT recommended at 1:4 or 1:5, where HIIT work:rest is normally 1:2 or less.

    HIRT can repeat for an extended period of time, whereas HIIT the recovery is always incomplete and the session needs to be terminated fairly quickly, under 20 minutes.
     
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  7. Bro Mo

    Bro Mo Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Good point. Perhaps the definition of high intensity matches PCr depletion rate better. When I am all out effort, I can't go 20sec. Is the HI aspect really the same for both though? If HIIT doesn't allow HI to be reached because the short rest doesn't allow it, is it still HI? Is it more high effort or something along those lines? Are high intensity and high effort really synonymous?
     
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  8. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Good question, and I'd say it depends on the specific activity.

    When I jump rope I go for 20 seconds and don't think I could do but another couple seconds at that pace. I count my beats though, and I hit the same number of beats per repeat. The reduced recovery period (per other conversations about intensity vs volume) allows for a solid adaptive response within a shorter session, but by necessity the session must be short.

    When I cross this with my HR over 12 repeats, I get to about the 6th or 7th repeat and my HR recovery bounces around a 15-20 BPM high and low. It clearly is not recovering and neither am I fully clearing Pi, lactate, etc. My wind recovers and I'm on to the next. I'd imagine with a true Tabata your wind won't even recover, hence the even shorter number of repeats. But, I maintain the same number of beats over those 20 seconds from the first effort to the last. I was doing 15 repeats but it felt like those last three were just beating me up and I'd already gotten all the good I was going to get after a dozen.

    Similar with my 25 minute metcons. I am definitely reaching a point where lack of recovery overlaps with larger segments of the working period. But, I maintain about the same working timeframe per repeat. Again, there is a limit to the number of repeats I can do, but that's included in the plan. With lessening intensity you need more volume - more repeats - to get a similar adaptive response. Unless the desired response is different anyway, I don't do metcons to improve raw strength.

    Have done enough reading on HIIT to know that longer (>10 second efforts) and shorter rest periods generate the "best" classic HIIT response. As the rest periods increase you're getting into a different adaptive response and the increased mitochondrial/capillary density response becomes muted. Presumably you hit a different muscular endurance aspect, and therein is another real difference between the two.

    When doing a full effort Iso I can go for about 20 seconds with legs, closer to 30 with upper body work. Probably more going on than just PCr depletion anytime you're using submax loading at high repeat though. I contrast HIIT, metcons, and HIRT with things like Mentzer single rep eccentric repeats with max loading - now that qualifies as max PCr depletion in 10 seconds. I'm not sure that's really what we're after, as a serious depletion effort won't recover in any sort of reasonable timeframe - think powerlifting singles at nearly 100%RM.

    Have to ID what response is desired and go from there.
     
  9. Bro Mo

    Bro Mo Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I think I've always trusted Kenneth Jay's research claiming 1:1 at 15-30sec. Yesterday, I did 20 intervals of 40:20 and that definitely forced moderate intensity regardless of the effort I tried to impart.
    After I read one of the HIRT articles, rather than train it to process waste better, train it to produce less waste to begin with. I find that philosophically very intriguing as a base training goal.
     
  10. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    That sounds like a good target. Another thing to keep in mind when it comes to HIIT, each interval needs to be a maximal effort to get the best response, not necessarily at the same absolute level though.

    The science behind fatigue is pretty interesting - there's a lot we still don't know.
     
  11. Bro Mo

    Bro Mo Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Critical Power Article
    Here are a couple interesting plots from this article.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Power falls off very quickly and has run it's course at about the 45sec mark.
     
  12. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Here's an interesting one about different aspects of hi-cap endurance, also in the realm of bike training:

     
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