How are kettlebell swings not Cardio???

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KIWI5

Level 3 Valued Member
Could someone post a link to the Mike Prevost Navy PRT Guide? I remember reading about this and I forgot to bookmark the page.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
@mprevost - great stuff, thank you for the explanations!

My PT test was this week and I've been thinking about how to drop from 16:00 to 15:30 by the next test in October. I'm literally running the fastest I ever have but I also know I've got a lot of room to improve further.

I've read your Navy-PRT guide and am going to rotate my runs according to your three tools of Steady pace, Tempo, VO2Max intervals. Training for the 2 mile event I don't feel like I've done any zone 2. It's all been zone 3-4 with occasional VO2Max intervals.

From what you are saying and what I read online, it looks like I should focus on building zone 2 volume for my underlying aerobic fitness as I'm almost always running anaerobically. But it feels so slow and it feels like wasting time/going backwards. Now that I've got a 5 month time frame how do I shift my training or do I just repeat your guide?

Also, does zone 2 cardio in other activities transfer? I'm looking at getting a rower or stationary bike when I PCS to Oklahoma next month so I can do 30-40min, zone 2 at-home cardio while my wife watches TV in the evening. I know I can't stop running altogether but I want to maybe do 60%+ of my zone 2 training at home rather than jogging slow on my own for hours.

What would you recommend?
I am not answering for Mr. Prevost, but I will add my 2 cents. As many know, I have been an endurance guy for decades. Only in the last 5 years or so have I discovered the value of 'slow'. By that I mean at or below the Aerobic Threshold. I can only say, that I would be better off if I made that discovery decades ago. It took me a while to physically and mentally adapt to a lower intensity. But it works! In fact based on my training mentors recommendations I do the majority of my stuff in Z1. I avoid Z2. And the little bit that's left is Z3/4.
Do other modalities follow suit besides running? I believe so. I cycle (a lot) and ruck. The muscles and connective tissues get stressed and adapt differently, but the heart benefit should be the same or close. I hope that @mprevost will step in and correct any possible misunderstandings I have on that.
 

Bret S.

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
VWC works because the protocol has you do snatches at a fast pace using a kettlebell that is light enough so that you do not generate muscle tension that would cause blood occlusion which would cause the workout to be more towards the powerlifter side of the continuum.
Mike I don't have any VWC stuff but have been interested in it. While prepping for SFG I used a 12k bell sometimes for volume training. I tried to build in some more staying power by keeping the bell in the air for 15 minutes snatching rhythmically and taking a short rest at the top. It was hard and there's no way I could go longer unless I trained for it more.. Is the KJ protocol non-stop snatches for 30-45 mins? 12k is my lightest bell.
 

RLow04

Level 1 Valued Member
Just finished the run guide, so good and answered all my questions.

For the next 2 months I need to work on my base aerobic fitness in zone 2. I’ll start at 3 mi/day and work up to 6mi/day by July. At that point I’ll add one tempo run/wk and another tempo run/wk in Aug. September will be my peaking weeks where I add 1 VO2max run/wk and then taper before the test.

My guess about cross training on a rower for 2-3 days/wk shouldn’t be a problem in the base months and in the place of 1-2 zone 2 runs in build/peak season.

Meanwhile I’ll be working on S&S!

I downloaded the run guide from Dr. Prevost. Content is excellent. And it's FREE!

 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I am not answering for Mr. Prevost, but I will add my 2 cents. As many know, I have been an endurance guy for decades. Only in the last 5 years or so have I discovered the value of 'slow'. By that I mean at or below the Aerobic Threshold. I can only say, that I would be better off if I made that discovery decades ago. It took me a while to physically and mentally adapt to a lower intensity. But it works! In fact based on my training mentors recommendations I do the majority of my stuff in Z1. I avoid Z2. And the little bit that's left is Z3/4.
Do other modalities follow suit besides running? I believe so. I cycle (a lot) and ruck. The muscles and connective tissues get stressed and adapt differently, but the heart benefit should be the same or close. I hope that @mprevost will step in and correct any possible misunderstandings I have on that.
Well, because of you I know this at an earlier age in life. Thank you.
 

mprevost

Level 6 Valued Member
@mprevost - great stuff, thank you for the explanations!

My PT test was this week and I've been thinking about how to drop from 16:00 to 15:30 by the next test in October. I'm literally running the fastest I ever have but I also know I've got a lot of room to improve further.

I've read your Navy-PRT guide and am going to rotate my runs according to your three tools of Steady pace, Tempo, VO2Max intervals. Training for the 2 mile event I don't feel like I've done any zone 2. It's all been zone 3-4 with occasional VO2Max intervals.

From what you are saying and what I read online, it looks like I should focus on building zone 2 volume for my underlying aerobic fitness as I'm almost always running anaerobically. But it feels so slow and it feels like wasting time/going backwards. Now that I've got a 5 month time frame how do I shift my training or do I just repeat your guide?

Also, does zone 2 cardio in other activities transfer? I'm looking at getting a rower or stationary bike when I PCS to Oklahoma next month so I can do 30-40min, zone 2 at-home cardio while my wife watches TV in the evening. I know I can't stop running altogether but I want to maybe do 60%+ of my zone 2 training at home rather than jogging slow on my own for hours.

What would you recommend?
If you want to run faster, you have to run. You will see very little transfer from other activities. Almost all runners, even milers, do the bulk of their training in zone 2. If you want to read a ton on this Google "polarized training." Start with base building phase in the endurance guide and work through the 3 phases, with the peaking phase right before your PT test (last 4-5 weeks or so as stated in the guide). If you add the fast stuff later, on a base of zone 2 volume, you'll go faster.
 

mprevost

Level 6 Valued Member
@mprevost
Quite a surprising amount of respectable long run results have been done with a 10:1 strategy (run 10 mis, walk for 1 min). That is a tried and true strategy... any ideas why that (and your’s and Steve’s way) works? Pure mental, or are there physiological factors (like muscle relaxation or so?)
For longer events it allows you to get some fluids and process some calories. It is hard to process fluids and calories while running.
 

mprevost

Level 6 Valued Member
Sir, you have my respect. Which Ironman did you do?
I did Ironman Florida more than 10 years ago. I did not prepare properly but I finished. I trained up for Ironman Kentucky at 40 years old and was in the best run/swim/bike shape of my life, but decided not to race. It was a good decision. That was way too much aerobic conditioning. I was biking 100+ miles every saturday, running 15-20 miles ever Wednesday, swimming a couple of miles on Fridays, plus several other runs, bikes and swims. Too much....
 

Waryrenn

Level 5 Valued Member
@mprevost

@Kozushi (OP) stated goal is
optimal heart health.
He proposes a walk/ruck/hike 3x per week 'for a minimum of 75 minutes a time'.


In your opinion - if all these walks took place in Dr. John Helleman HR
Zones 69-75%, measured by subjective intensity of 'easy'; would meaningful adaptions take place to attain Kozushi's primary goal
goal of a long healthy life

I currently have time to achieve about this duration of LED work, so this insight will certainly help guide my training.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
@mprevost

@Kozushi (OP) stated goal is
He proposes a walk/ruck/hike 3x per week 'for a minimum of 75 minutes a time'.


In your opinion - if all these walks took place in Dr. John Helleman HR
Zones 69-75%, measured by subjective intensity of 'easy'; would meaningful adaptions take place to attain Kozushi's primary goal



I currently have time to achieve about this duration of LED work, so this insight will certainly help guide my training.
In another thread it came up that kettlebell swings count as High Intensity Interval Resistance Training (HIIRT) which develop surprisingly large amounts of cardio, aerobic and anaerobic fitness, and even moderate strength gains!

In any case, I have trusted in the idea of going out for a good 75 minutes or so walk about 3 times a week for the past couple of decades. I get the impression that it has been a good idea, and I'll certainly continue with it.
 

Marlon Leon

Level 3 Valued Member
@Kozushi earlier you've mentioned that you like to go for long walks as your preferred form of steady-state cardio. You are in good company. Dorian Yates also liked to go for power walks. The only gadget you need is a heart rate monitor. You would want to know which weight you lift. Similarly you'd want to know the intensity of your cardio training. With a heart rate monitor you can cross compare any activity and ensure its effectiveness.

For walking you can raise the heart rate before you start by doing push ups, squats or swings and then keep the heart rate elevated by using excessive arm movement or even tense your upper body muscles from time to time. Marty Gallagher wrote about this subject and in case you are interested I can point you to some articles.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
@Kozushi earlier you've mentioned that you like to go for long walks as your preferred form of steady-state cardio. You are in good company. Dorian Yates also liked to go for power walks. The only gadget you need is a heart rate monitor. You would want to know which weight you lift. Similarly you'd want to know the intensity of your cardio training. With a heart rate monitor you can cross compare any activity and ensure its effectiveness.

For walking you can raise the heart rate before you start by doing push ups, squats or swings and then keep the heart rate elevated by using excessive arm movement or even tense your upper body muscles from time to time. Marty Gallagher wrote about this subject and in case you are interested I can point you to some articles.
Ah, so that's why it feels so much better to walk after doing a workout! Makes sense! The heart rate starts higher so you're in the high heart rate phase for the whole walk instead of only the last half of it. I get it!

My feeling, apparently backed up with research posted here, is that if we're talking just heart hearth and a baseline of strength, long walks do the trick PERFECTLY. I used walking as my only supplemental training to judo for a decade, while I was competing and winning mind you! I had zero issues with cardio in training, I think because of walking (and I thought so at the time too). It's also the least psychologically demanding of any exercise since it's a subconscious movement and takes little to no deliberate thinking. I do definitely argue that it grants a certain baseline of full body strength too! I had just been doing deadlifts and judo for a month and then started walking again, and I FELT IT! My body was quite sore for a while after restarting the walking! This shows that it's using lots of muscles and strengthening them.

I see lots of old couples walking around my neighbourhood every day, and I do not doubt that their long daily walks are the main reason that they have survived so long!
 

mprevost

Level 6 Valued Member
@mprevost

@Kozushi (OP) stated goal is
He proposes a walk/ruck/hike 3x per week 'for a minimum of 75 minutes a time'.


In your opinion - if all these walks took place in Dr. John Helleman HR
Zones 69-75%, measured by subjective intensity of 'easy'; would meaningful adaptions take place to attain Kozushi's primary goal



I currently have time to achieve about this duration of LED work, so this insight will certainly help guide my training.
Yes, certainly. A big part of heart health is reducing inflammation, which this type of training will certainly do.
 

vegpedlr

Level 6 Valued Member
Walking is brilliant for recovery. It helps blood, lymph, qi, and everything else circulate better. It's also great for extending a long workout with lower risk. Like doing a long run, then a 30 min walk. Maffetone often prescribed walking to his elite athletes on top of everything else they did. They often noticed a bit of soreness, which Maffetone explained was from muscle fibers that only get stimulated at low intensities finally getting called into action.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Walking is brilliant for recovery. It helps blood, lymph, qi, and everything else circulate better. It's also great for extending a long workout with lower risk. Like doing a long run, then a 30 min walk. Maffetone often prescribed walking to his elite athletes on top of everything else they did. They often noticed a bit of soreness, which Maffetone explained was from muscle fibers that only get stimulated at low intensities finally getting called into action.
AH! I was wondering why I was so sore after restarting walking even though I was doing weights and judo all along!

My simplistic way of looking at walking has always been how long I do it for compared with other things. It is a legit exercise even if "light" and if I'm doing it for 75 minutes a day it's obviously a serious amount of exercise simply for the length of it, and there are no breaks - it's constant engagement.
 
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