Kettlebell How do you know your “5 rep max”?

[Anth]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how do you know what your 5-rep max is for something like double clean and jerk? It’s not like you can max out safely with that lift.

For example, I can do 5 with the double 32s with decent form, but then I’m absolutely smoked. I can also do a single with one 40k. Would it be safe to assume that’s my 5-rep max for something like the giant 3.0?

The only reason that I hesitate is that I feel like I would be pretty beat up doing sets of 3 for 20 minutes.

 

[Steve Freides]

You don't know your absolute max until you test it. You can, however, know things like your technical max, meaning the most reps you can do without compromising your technique, or some kind of in-between max where you don't start the rep you aren't confident of finishing, but you do allow yourself to push a bit further than your technical max. That "in between" doesn't work well for ballistics, however - but it does exist for grinds.

Always best to err on the side of caution. If triples for 20 minutes seems too much, you have a few options, one of which is to do triples and see how far you get before your form suffers. Another would be to simply do doubles and see how you feel after 20 minutes. Or use 28's. Or mix doubles and triple and see what that feels like.

-S-

 

[John K]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how do you know what your 5-rep max is for something like double clean and jerk? It’s not like you can max out safely with that lift.

For example, I can do 5 with the double 32s with decent form, but then I’m absolutely smoked. I can also do a single with one 40k. Would it be safe to assume that’s my 5-rep max for something like the giant 3.0?

The only reason that I hesitate is that I feel like I would be pretty beat up doing sets of 3 for 20 minutes.

This sounds like an equally stupid answer, but I don't mean it rudely. I test - if I can do 5 with 32s, but I try 36s and I get 2 or 3, then ... 32 it is! If I want to see what my RM is with 32s, I might revisit them a couple days later for a rep max test, stopping when I hit a technical rep max - e.g. form changes, I have to start resting longer between reps or between the clean and jerk, or the speed changes.

As for doing 3s for 20 minutes - I can empathize with the feeling, but let me ask you this: how would you feel if you did a set of 3 and then sat down for 5 minutes before doing another set? You only get 3-4 sets like that, but if it takes you that long to be "ready" ... that's what the program asks for. And if you really can only do 2 or 3 sets, then your initial goal over the first 4 week block might be to 1) get used to the exercise/intensity and 2) start adding sets without increasing density. So, in our example, Week 1 Day 1 you do 3 sets of 3, resting 5 minutes in between. Week 2 Day 1 you go for 4 sets with 5 minutes rest, and Week 3 Day 1 you go for 5 sets with 5 minutes rest. You "grow" your work from ~12 minutes to closer to 30 minutes without touching the density of your triples.

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

Maybe go down to the next weight you know you can do the 20 minutes with and not be totally ruined. Once you ease into the program and that weight is feeling “easy” go to a heavier set of bells. Double 32 cl&j is no joke. Some days I set a timer and I’ll do sets of 32’s until it feels like I won’t be able to do it again within a couple minutes, I will switch to 24’s for a few less intense rounds. I would consider asking @Geoff Neupert for advice since the Giant 3.0 is his program. I’m sure he could guide you very well.

 

[Anth]

As for doing 3s for 20 minutes - I can empathize with the feeling, but let me ask you this: how would you feel if you did a set of 3 and then sat down for 5 minutes before doing another set? You only get 3-4 sets like that, but if it takes you that long to be "ready" ... that's what the program asks for. And if you really can only do 2 or 3 sets, then your initial goal over the first 4 week block might be to 1) get used to the exercise/intensity and 2) start adding sets without increasing density. So, in our example, Week 1 Day 1 you do 3 sets of 3, resting 5 minutes in between. Week 2 Day 1 you go for 4 sets with 5 minutes rest, and Week 3 Day 1 you go for 5 sets with 5 minutes rest. You "grow" your work from ~12 minutes to closer to 30 minutes without touching the density of your triples.

I was thinking about this. I guess this is what the program calls for…

 

[Anth]

Another dimension to this question. Let’s say I do 5 reps with pretty good form, but my back muscles are in knots for a week and my elbows are creaking. Would that be a good indicator that it’s not a true max, or just the fact that maxing out is not really a good idea?

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

Another dimension to this question. Let’s say I do 5 reps with pretty good form, but my back muscles are in knots for a week and my elbows are creaking. Would that be a good indicator that it’s not a true max, or just the fact that maxing out is not really a good idea?

What do you mean your elbows are creaking? If something hurts, it maybe be a technique issue. For example, at the bottom of the clean if your arms catch the bells with straight arms there should be minimal ache but if you are swinging the bells downwards with bent arms then you will certainly develop some tenderness in the elbows. Another issue may be casting the bells out too far forward on the downswing. If your back is in knots pay attention to that and make sure you are doing some adequate stretching, self massage with something like a tennis ball in a long sock, hanging from a pull-up bar etc. I notice that if I go a few days without hanging from the bar, my back tends to develop some aches from the tension. Maybe consider posting yourself performing a few sets on the forum to get a quick critique.

 

[Anth]

What do you mean your elbows are creaking? If something hurts, it maybe be a technique issue. For example, at the bottom of the clean if your arms catch the bells with straight arms there should be minimal ache but if you are swinging the bells downwards with bent arms then you will certainly develop some tenderness in the elbows. Another issue may be casting the bells out too far forward on the downswing. If your back is in knots pay attention to that and make sure you are doing some adequate stretching, self massage with something like a tennis ball in a long sock, hanging from a pull-up bar etc. I notice that if I go a few days without hanging from the bar, my back tends to develop some aches from the tension. Maybe consider posting yourself performing a few sets on the forum to get a quick critique.

I just have old elbow injuries that get irritated easily. I do hanging for my neck/upper back and it helps.

 

[solarbear]

Experience. I can probably predict within a rep or two what I could do with most weights and lifts just based on 35 years experience and how things felt the last few days.

I have this relatively inexperienced person who works out with me sometimes. He is always amazed that I can stop him 1 rep short of failure pretty much without fail. Or that I haven't failed a rep in years. How do I do it? Same as anyone. Bar speed, technical failure (the reps stop looking or feeling clean), perceived exertion, context.

He is also surprised when I just stick to the small increases I have planned rather than do more. I often say to him "I'll do that next week."

 

[Geoff Neupert]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how do you know what your 5-rep max is for something like double clean and jerk? It’s not like you can max out safely with that lift.

You simply test it. And you can max out safely. You simply refuse to let your technique change and stop the set when it does.

For example, I can do 5 with the double 32s with decent form, but then I’m absolutely smoked. I can also do a single with one 40k. Would it be safe to assume that’s my 5-rep max for something like the giant 3.0?

Yes. That then is your 5RM.

And yes, that's your 5RM for 'THE GIANT 3.0'.

The only reason that I hesitate is that I feel like I would be pretty beat up doing sets of 3 for 20 minutes.

This sounds like an assumption. Have you tested it out yet?

And if you're using the autoregulation guidelines in the program, you shouldn't smoke yourself.

Hope this helps.

 

[Geoff Neupert]

Another dimension to this question. Let’s say I do 5 reps with pretty good form, but my back muscles are in knots for a week and my elbows are creaking. Would that be a good indicator that it’s not a true max, or just the fact that maxing out is not really a good idea?

Yes and no.

No. It's still your true max because that's all you could do.

And yes, it sounds like it's a bad idea, because you have underlying issues you need to take care of.

Hope this helps.

 

[Anth]

You simply test it. And you can max out safely. You simply refuse to let your technique change and stop the set when it does.

Yes. That then is your 5RM.

And yes, that's your 5RM for 'THE GIANT 3.0'.

This sounds like an assumption. Have you tested it out yet?

And if you're using the autoregulation guidelines in the program, you shouldn't smoke yourself.

Hope this helps.

Yes. That does help. Thanks!

 

[DocMike]

Best way to know your max is test it out.

 

[mar2safety]

To be honest, I used to test my 5RM and would count even the sketchiest last rep. It wasn't until I read (and ran) a few of Fabio Zonin's programs that I started using 5TRM. Strongfirst methods have made me stronger, while placing an emphasis on safety. My only regret is feeding my ego with an inflated RM, in my younger days. I could have spared some back pain.