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Other/Mixed How do you practice diaphragmatic breathing, breathing too often problem

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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guardian7

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Taking the lead from OS and the current interest in improving breathing at SF, I am trying to improve my normal breathing pattern.

However, when I conciously try to breath , diaphragmically, I always find that I tend to breath more often when the real goal as far as I understand is to breathe better but less.

Just breathe is not as obvious as it seems, which is the entire point of this practice.

Also, doing a few min of it as part of a warmup also doesn't hurt but doesn't seem to be the right approach as I have found with trying to improve my posture. You need to try to build it in to daily habits. When I am just waiting for example, for toast to pop, I take a few deep breaths. It is more of a GTG approach I am taking.

For those, not just doing a cool down or a warmup, how do you go about trying to improve regular diaphragmic breathing. I know there is Butekyo and Wim Hoff and lots of techniques out there, I am just talking about basic breathing pattern. I notice I hold my breath too much working on the computer, which might be a more widespread problem that we think.

Any tips on trying to make improved breathing unconscious behavior?
 
When sitting, one hand on chest, one hand on belly... make the belly hand move, not the chest hand. Breathing through the nose.

Breathe slowly, and especially for the exhale. Elongate the exhale. Pause after the exhale, 3-30 seconds, whatever you're comfortable with.

The more you practice, the more it will become unconscious behavior.
 
Taking the lead from OS and the current interest in improving breathing at SF, I am trying to improve my normal breathing pattern.

However, when I conciously try to breath , diaphragmically, I always find that I tend to breath more often when the real goal as far as I understand is to breathe better but less.

Just breathe is not as obvious as it seems, which is the entire point of this practice.

Also, doing a few min of it as part of a warmup also doesn't hurt but doesn't seem to be the right approach as I have found with trying to improve my posture. You need to try to build it in to daily habits. When I am just waiting for example, for toast to pop, I take a few deep breaths. It is more of a GTG approach I am taking.

For those, not just doing a cool down or a warmup, how do you go about trying to improve regular diaphragmic breathing. I know there is Butekyo and Wim Hoff and lots of techniques out there, I am just talking about basic breathing pattern. I notice I hold my breath too much working on the computer, which might be a more widespread problem that we think.

Any tips on trying to make improved breathing unconscious behavior?


You’ve mentioned Butekyo. Have you read Oxygen Advantage? It’s all there. It’s not easy to break a reflex, it’s same as bad posture (and linked). You need to practice it both seated and walking and training, there are also sleeping methods like taping the mouth.
 
Personally I haven't found much value in experimenting with the exercises from Oxygen Advantage. Limiting the inbreath does not feel right for me. I prefer more mindfulness based breathing practices.

And I second the idea of longer exhales. What I often do is to breath out consciously and a bit exaggerated. When you then let go of tension the inbreath should happen quite naturally (through the nose). A light smile help + letting the jaw and shoulders relax, I find. I try to savor breathing and feel how it nourishes the body and calms the mind.

Sometimes a small mental pointer like "it is all good" or "everything is safe" can help, as it is so interrelated with the parasympathic system.

When that kind of breathing is established in relaxing situations, the questions is: How can you be more relaxed or confident (less tight and anxious) in everyday situations?
 
Sometimes a small mental pointer like "it is all good" or "everything is safe" can help, as it is so interrelated with the parasympathic system.

One of my yoga instructors used to say during Savasana, "All is well. Everything is as it should be." Powerful words! I used that mantra along with breathing to stay calm before my surgery last year.

And yes, the elongated exhale and the pause after the exhale both favor the parasympathetic nervous system. A long inhale and pausing at the top of the breath favors the sympathetic NS so isn't productive when you're trying to calm down. Many people's well-meaning advice to "take a deep breath to calm down" should really be a bit more descriptive! And while occasionally we can use the breath to wake up or psyche up for something, most of the time we can better use it to downregulate the NS an stress levels, so the long exhale and pause at the bottom is more effective.

All this is taught at the Second Wind seminar.
 
Hello,

Maybe I am a little bit weird, but in my humble opinion, diaphragmatic breathing should not be a "practice", such as a lifting session. I mean we should not dedicate time to practice it. It should be automatic because this is our most efficient and natural way to breathe. In this regard, we can look at how a baby breathe.

Nasal breathing usually generates a "by default" diaphragmatic breathing. After reading Oxygen Advantage, I have started nasal breathing in everyday life. At the beginning, yes it requires a "conscious effort". But very quick, it becomes 100% natural. Now, I use nasal breathing first.

Nasal breathing increase nitric oxide production, which help to dilate blood vessels. Then, we have a better O2 transfer to the muscles / organs. This ultimately lead to:
- Better stress management (I am way more relax)
- Clear mind
- Better recovery
- Better pain and effort management

Results come very fast, both from a physical and mental standpoint. For me, it was in about a few weeks only.


Then, based on that, my researches lead me to Brian MacKenzie and what he calls the breath shifting gear, based on the effort:
1. Inhale Nose, Exhale Nose, slow
2. Inhale Nose, Exhale Nose, faster
3. Inhale Nose, Exhale Mouth, slow
4. Inhale Nose, Exhale Mouth, fast
5. Inhale Mouth, Exhale Mouth, faster

This gear shifting requires some tests to know at first when we are clearly obliged to either use the mouth or increase the breathing pattern. Nonetheless, the goal is to use as long as we can the 1st gear to shift the aerobic threshold.

There are plenty of ways to test and improve these patterns:
- When we run, we can breathe through the nose "slowly". As soon as it becomes harder (pace increase, elevation), we still use nasal breathing, but faster. If this is still not enough, we shift to gear 3 and so forth.
- In the comfort of our home: a ladder from 1 to 10 and the reverse (for instance) of 1 push ups, 1 pull up1, 3 squats
1. 1 push ups - 1 pull up - 3 squats
2. 2 push ups - 2 pull ups - 6 squats
Do this using nasal breathing only.

So I do not "practice" diaphragmatic breathing, I live with it.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Don't try to school your breath.

What you're trying to change is just an indicator. The number and quality of breaths you take per minute is directly correlated to how much at ease and relaxed you are.

Traditionally in yoga, this relaxation is achieved through the practice of asanas (postures) and pranayama (breath control). This isn't the setting to go into specifics, but some fundamental practices include alternate nostril breathing as well as prone postures, from crocodile breathing to various snake, boat and bow postures.

As you learn to relax into the postures, your breathing changes, not only during the practice but throughout the day as well. For example, I can drop my HR below 40 and breath to 1-2 times per minute in certain meditative states. This isn't to brag and it isn't a goal in it of itself, but it does show the relationship between relaxation and breathing.
 
Hello,

One of my yoga instructors used to say during Savasana, "All is well. Everything is as it should be." Powerful words! I used that mantra along with breathing to stay calm before my surgery last year.
From personal experience, I am more than 100% with you on this one !!

For example, I can drop my HR below 40
For I have been using nasal breathing, simultaneously with regular exercise, my resting HR dropped to 50 without any conscious effort.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
diaphragmatic breathing should not be a "practice", such as a lifting session.

Don't try to school your breath.

Why not? Seems to me you would want to deliberately practice doing something you want to move towards doing automatically, whether lifting, breathing, posture, positive thought, etc...

Traditionally in yoga, this relaxation is achieved through the practice of asanas (postures) and pranayama (breath control). This isn't the setting to go into specifics, but some fundamental practices include alternate nostril breathing as well as prone postures, from crocodile breathing to various snake, boat and bow postures.

As you learn to relax into the postures, your breathing changes, not only during the practice but throughout the day as well.

Isn't what you describe here pretty much "schooling your breath"?
 
When sitting, one hand on chest, one hand on belly... make the belly hand move, not the chest hand. Breathing through the nose.

Breathe slowly, and especially for the exhale. Elongate the exhale. Pause after the exhale, 3-30 seconds, whatever you're comfortable with.

The more you practice, the more it will become unconscious behavior.

I practiced a bit today and could see the value of focusing on the belly not chest. It is not the same as taking a huge breathe like you are going to dive underwater! Thanks.
 
You’ve mentioned Butekyo. Have you read Oxygen Advantage? It’s all there. It’s not easy to break a reflex, it’s same as bad posture (and linked). You need to practice it both seated and walking and training, there are also sleeping methods like taping the mouth.

I agree. The alexander method of improving movement and posture mentions that you should be constantly monitoring your actual posture even when brushing your teeth for example. It is hard to mold the body from habits you have had for years. I am now convinced that most of the population breathes very poorly. I was also a bit suprised to note the effect of poor breathing on shoulder and thoratic tightness which has been noted for me as getting in the way of performance such as difficulty with the low bar squat position and overhead barbell press. KB are more forgiving but that does not fix the problem.
 
I am now convinced that most of the population breathes very poorly.

Based on my experience as a trainer (not extensive, as a part-time gig, but I've trained 100-200 individuals), I would agree with this. Even people in the 20-40 age group, when I have them do the "one hand on the chest and one hand on the belly" just to see which hand moves in their default breathing pattern whether at rest or after a set of swings, for most people it is the chest hand that moves more, when it should be the belly hand. Most people don't even know how to breathe mostly with the diaphragm.

Unfortunately the diagphragm isn't s a muscle we can see or flex or measure, so this deficiency goes largely undetected. Even when we improve, we can't see or measure the improvement, so it gets little attention.

I would suspect this is highly relevant to a certain respiratory disease that's making the rounds right now (COVID-19) and breathing well can be a powerful antidote to its effects... but of course there's no proof of that, yet.
 
@guardian7, Buteyko takes care of what you want to achieve, and has specific ways of measuring it.

You can read The Oxygen Advantage to have an idea of what the method is about. You can even try some of the exercises and maybe manage to nose breathe all day long. However, if you really want to learn the method, work with an instructor.

In my case, I was able to learn the method in about 1 month, and the results were amazing. My allergies were solved, runny nose solved, pulse dropped from 60 to 50, lost 8 kg of excess weight in a month, never had a blocked nose again, managed to nose breathe automatically and a few more things.
 
Hello,

Maybe I am a little bit weird, but in my humble opinion, diaphragmatic breathing should not be a "practice", such as a lifting session. I mean we should not dedicate time to practice it. It should be automatic because this is our most efficient and natural way to breathe. In this regard, we can look at how a baby breathe.

Nasal breathing usually generates a "by default" diaphragmatic breathing. After reading Oxygen Advantage, I have started nasal breathing in everyday life. At the beginning, yes it requires a "conscious effort". But very quick, it becomes 100% natural. Now, I use nasal breathing first.

Nasal breathing increase nitric oxide production, which help to dilate blood vessels. Then, we have a better O2 transfer to the muscles / organs. This ultimately lead to:
- Better stress management (I am way more relax)
- Clear mind
- Better recovery
- Better pain and effort management

Results come very fast, both from a physical and mental standpoint. For me, it was in about a few weeks only.


Then, based on that, my researches lead me to Brian MacKenzie and what he calls the breath shifting gear, based on the effort:
1. Inhale Nose, Exhale Nose, slow
2. Inhale Nose, Exhale Nose, faster
3. Inhale Nose, Exhale Mouth, slow
4. Inhale Nose, Exhale Mouth, fast
5. Inhale Mouth, Exhale Mouth, faster

This gear shifting requires some tests to know at first when we are clearly obliged to either use the mouth or increase the breathing pattern. Nonetheless, the goal is to use as long as we can the 1st gear to shift the aerobic threshold.

There are plenty of ways to test and improve these patterns:
- When we run, we can breathe through the nose "slowly". As soon as it becomes harder (pace increase, elevation), we still use nasal breathing, but faster. If this is still not enough, we shift to gear 3 and so forth.
- In the comfort of our home: a ladder from 1 to 10 and the reverse (for instance) of 1 push ups, 1 pull up1, 3 squats
1. 1 push ups - 1 pull up - 3 squats
2. 2 push ups - 2 pull ups - 6 squats
Do this using nasal breathing only.

So I do not "practice" diaphragmatic breathing, I live with it.

Kind regards,

Pet'

Yes, I totally agree but you have to start somewhere. I am using swing recovery, cold showers, and rucking as well as evening relaxation before bed to help me concentrate more on my breathing. I notice clear benefits from nasal breathing recovery. It also just feels so much calmer.
 
Based on my experience as a trainer (not extensive, as a part-time gig, but I've trained 100-200 individuals), I would agree with this. Even people in the 20-40 age group, when I have them do the "one hand on the chest and one hand on the belly" just to see which hand moves in their default breathing pattern whether at rest or after a set of swings, for most people it is the chest hand that moves more, when it should be the belly hand. Most people don't even know how to breathe mostly with the diaphragm.

Unfortunately the diagphragm isn't s a muscle we can see or flex or measure, so this deficiency goes largely undetected. Even when we improve, we can't see or measure the improvement, so it gets little attention.

I would suspect this is highly relevant to a certain respiratory disease that's making the rounds right now (COVID-19) and breathing well can be a powerful antidote to its effects... but of course there's no proof of that, yet.

Unfortunately, I am convinced because I count myself among those who need the improvement. I also felt like I had done an ab workout the first day I practiced indicating weak diaphragm muscles I assume.

It is clear that general physical health may not prevent getting the virus but it is quite clear that it will help with recovery and there is increasing evidence of medium and maybe long-term damage to cardiovascular health and stamina even for those who recovered. Even Olympic rowing athletes have struggled with recovery apparently. Take Coronavirus More Seriously, Say Olympic Rowers Who Got It
 
Hello,

@Anna C
I totally agree agree with you. As @guardian7 wisely stated, "you have to start somewhere".

When I started, I directly did it in "background task", to really make it an habit. I did it while walking to my job for instance, or even while working at my desk. This is why I did not "dedicate" X minutes doing only breathing. I mean I wanted to keep doing something "productive" (walking, working)

What I wanted to say is that once it becomes an habit, this is natural (like lifting ;) brushing the teeth, etc...).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

I would suspect this is highly relevant to a certain respiratory disease that's making the rounds right now (COVID-19) and breathing well can be a powerful antidote to its effects... but of course there's no proof of that, yet.
Oh yes !

I recently read in a French paper (but do not remember where...) that nasal breathing would have been an antidote indeed ! I remember the article said that this was due to the hairs we have in the nostrils, which are a very powerful barrier of defense because they act as a filter.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I hope this isn't out of scope for this thread but I've been wondering for a while. The left side of my diaphragm is paralyzed due to a sloppy surgeon many years ago and I wasn't sure how that affects the whole breathe from the diaphragm thing? I sometimes try breathing practice but it just increases my anxiety.
 
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