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Nutrition How is losing weight through exercise different than through fasting?

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I would say exercising is more stressful. There is a limit to how much stress one should take and it builds up in the long run.
 
Can you clarify the question?

I worked as a PT for a fair while and I'd say that 'exercise' is too broad a category. People who lost weight from running looked different to those who lost it through HIIT looked different from those doing strength training etc.

There's also a 'different strokes for different folks' component. Some people will only stick to one and not the other.
 
IMO it's a sub par strategy....it's much easier to not eat a donut then work off the equivalent calories (and then some)
The problem with exercise as a WL strategy is that it's time and energy consuming. What happens when your revert back to the old strategy? you gain weight. Though the same concept happens with eating, it's far less stressful to the body to maintain a reasonably better caloric quality/quantity intake than it is to maintain excessive exercise volume long term
 
I agree that diet is more important than excersise, in terms of the overall energy balance...

But what about strength training? Do most of you accept that if one strength trains while losing weight, that this can help ensure that the weight lost is skewed more towards fat vs lean body tissue?

I think that there is something to this. In fact, when I want to lose 10 lb or so, I usually do the following:
- reduce calories by about 500/day (most of this is carbs)
- % protein (of daily calories) actually increases
- minimalist strength training program, cut out most other excersise (because my energy levels will be lower. For example, maybe train the 3 powerlifts or derivatives once per week and nothing g else!
- I ramp up how much walking I do

When I want to gain weight, I do the exact opposite:
- Increase calories by 500/day
- % carbs (of daily calories), actually increases.
- Since I have lots of energy, I do a more complete strength and conditioning training plan.
- I always walk a lot, but maybe cut this back a bit.

Regards

Eric
 
Okay, so no one is saying there is any special exercise magic to it. It can be part of it but really it's about diet. Okay.
I'm too heavy to do the snatch test with the 24kg bell, at 105kg. I don't want to do the test with the 28 when all I have to do is lose 6ish kg.
I've put on what sure feels like a lot of muscle over the past 6 months with some new approaches to kettlebell training (like using lighter weights on days I used to skip the workout), and with my martial arts not really happening much to take away from kettlebelling. But I've also put on 5kg, which isn't doing anything for me. I'll get rid of it then just through eating a bit differently.
 
william bad butt said:
I agree that diet is more important than excersise, in terms of the overall energy balance...

But what about strength training? Do most of you accept that if one strength trains while losing weight, that this can help ensure that the weight lost is skewed more towards fat vs lean body tissue?
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Exercise and Weight Loss

Exercise is not that effective at burning calories.

It require an inordinate amount of exercise to burn a few calories.

It is much more efficient and effective to decrease you calorie intake.

As wespom9 said, you are better off not eating the donut than eating it and then trying exercise it off.

Resistance Training

Resistance Training preserves muscle mass and increase Insulin Sensitivity; both are important for weight loss and health.

Calorie Deficit

Drs John Ivy and Layne Norton, independent of each other, determined that decreasing calorie intake around 20% ensured body fat loss is maximized and minimized muscle loss.

The MATADOR Weight Loss Study

This research demonstrated the weight loss protocol that has been used by Bodybuilder for decades optimizes fat loss and preserves muscle mass; when preformed correctly.

Calorie are rotated up and down every two weeks. This has to do with...

The General Adaptation Syndrome

This means the body learns and adapts; as do all living things.

The MATADOR Study found that the body will adapt to a lower calorie intake in approximately two weeks.

When adaptation occurs, progress stops. Thus, after two week of a lower calorie diet, calories are increased. Increasing calorie intake increase your Metabolic Rate; you burn more calories.

Dr Layne Norton (PhD Nutritionist, Bodybuilder, Powerlifter) refers to this as Reverse Dieting; bouncing your caloric intake up and down.

Some initial gain in weight will occur when calories are increased. However, once you drop them down in the following Calorie Deficit Cycle, you will lose what you have gained and more.

One more illustration of The General Adaption Syndrome is the Covid Virus. It is now mutating so it can survive.

An over simplistic statement is the one of two things occur with The General Adaptation Syndrome; something either learns and adapts or dies.

Once your Metabolic Rate adapts to a new lower calorie intake, you weight/fat loss dies.

william bad butt said:
When I want to gain weight, I do the exact opposite:
- Increase calories by 500/day
- % carbs (of daily calories), actually increases.
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Gaining Weight

The same general MATADOR Weight Loss and data from Ivy and Norton apply, in reverse.

1) Increase your calorie intake approximately 20%.

2) The increase in calories does not have to be with carbohydrates.

I lost weight on a Calorie Deficit Ketogenic Diet.

I then decided to gain the weight back with the Ketogenic Diet. I dramatically increased my "Fat Calories". I added fat to everything.

I'd put some liquid fat (MCT, Avocado, Oliver, and/or Liquid Coconut Oil) in a shot glass (252 fat calories). Adding a couple of shot of it to my diet to increase my calorie intake.

I gained back the 15 lbs that I lost.

Take Home Message

Calories, no matter where they come from, Count.

Kozushi said:
Okay, so no one is saying there is any special exercise magic to it. It can be part of it but really it's about diet.
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High Intensity Interval Training

Weight loss is all about diet. That is the first rule.

HIIT falls into Metabolic Training.

One of the things it does is elevate your Metabolic Rate for hours after training; you burn more calories. It has to do with...

Excess Post Oxygen Consumption, EPOC

Think of EPOC as your Metabolic Credit Card.

High Intensity Interval Training equate to charging more on your Metabolic Credit Card than you can immediately pay off; that is the bad news.

The good news is that your EPOC Metabolic Credit Card allows to pay off the debt over time, hours. However, like all Credit Card companies, it charges you interest.

You end up paying back more than you initially spent.

The bad news is that you don't have enough in you Metabolic Checking Account.

So, to pay the debt back, you have to take it out of your Metabolic Saving Account (your Body Fat Saving Account).

Body Fat Savings

We all have a lot in our Body Fat Saving Account; no matter how thin and low your Body Fat Percentage is.

150 lb Person Example

Let say someone weights 150 lbs and has 10% Body Fat.

That means they have 15 lbs of Body Fat (10% of 150 lbs).

That means they have 52,500 Body Fat Calories (15 lbs of Body Fat X 3500 calories; 3500 calories - 1 lb of fat).
 
As always Kenny's posts are extremely enlightening all backed up with his patient research.
Something that especially struck me with the above post is that if you exercise really super hard HIIT-like then your body is at such a huge immediate caloric deficiency that it digs into your body fat reserves, something which normally only starts to happen after a long period of fasting.
Putting two and two together here, this must be part of the reason why people who exercise super-hard tend to look super-fit!
 
My experience, if I don't eat less when I stop training, I put on weight...fast.

When I'm trying to gain lean mass I pretty much always have to train less often and with less overall volume, and increase intensity of effort. If I don't, I don't get very far. Exercise def accounts for a bunch of calories.

Adding in a session of HIIT once or twice / week makes a big difference in body comp. Is not just EPOC, when glucose stores have been run down, the body burns more fat for energy even if you consume carb rich foods. If you load on carbs within an hour or so of depleting muscle glucose, your body doesn't react the same as it would later in the day, you keep burning fat and the carbs go right to storage.

HIIT depletes muscle glucose faster and to a greater degree than pretty much any other form of exercise.
 
Thinking about Kenny's scientific facts, 25% attributable to exercise is actually a huge factor in it all! 25% would certainly swing most elections, for example. 25% is no joke. And, "losing weight" is absolutely not the only goal people have when they want to lose weight. They also want muscle. So, exercise I'd place at being more important than diet in the bigger picture, but diet of course being also very important.
 
To go further with this, except for some exceptional cases where people are just doing dumb things in regards to diet, like drinking pop all the time and eating chocolate bars three to thirty times a day, and eating when they're bored not when they're hungry, most people eat pretty nutritiously. The thing most people lack, I think, is exercise. You could be eating perfectly healthily and still be fat, weak and not shapely. The factor that will make a difference here is the 25% of the equation that is lacking (exercise), which is like taking an average 75% grade level student at college and making him/her an A+ 100% student!

This is how I'm conceiving the conundrum.
 
Kozushi said:
To go further with this, except for some exceptional cases where people are just doing dumb things in regards to diet, like drinking pop all the time and eating chocolate bars three to thirty times a day, and eating when they're bored not when they're hungry, most people eat pretty nutritiously. The thing most people lack, I think, is exercise. You could be eating perfectly healthily and still be fat, weak and not shapely. The factor that will make a difference here is the 25% of the equation that is lacking (exercise), which is like taking an average 75% grade level student at college and making him/her an A+ 100% student!

This is how I'm conceiving the conundrum.
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Are you suggesting one should be Strong First? ROFLROFLROFLROFL:cool:
 
Hello,

Below is an interesting video from @mprevost :


We can "hack" the fat / carb use depending on when we train. Usually, if one trains fasted, first thing in the morning, it will use fat faster because blood glucose is lower at this moment.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Okay, so for like what, 10 days I half starved myself to see how much weight I could lose. So, I went down from 105.00kg to 103.70kg. And, continuing to half starve myself, I kept this weight for the rest of the time. I say "To heck with it!" I'll just eat normally to satiety and stay at 105kg, full of muscle and energy, and no irritability. I just had some great soup for lunch, YUM!
 
wespom9 said:
I think I may have to disagree here
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Most People Are Clueless

When it come to nutrition or exercise, the majority of people have no idea about what they are doing. That because they don't care/.
Kozushi said:
You could be eating perfectly healthily and still be fat, weak and not shapely.
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Calories In, Calories Out

A good diet does not ensure weight loss, strength nor being shapely.

If you are consuming more calories even from "Heathy Eating" (which is a vague term with no meaning), you are not going to lose weight. You need to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight.

The Twinkie Diet

Mark Haub, M.S. Nutrition at Kansas State University, demonstrated that weight loss was possible on a junk food diet. Haub lost 27 lbs in three months on a calorie deficit diet of junk food.

Haub's cholesterol numbers also improved on the Twinkie. This information is available online and has been posted on this site multiple times.

Kozushi said:
The factor that will make a difference here is the 25% of the equation that is lacking (exercise), which is like taking an average 75% grade level student at college and making him/her an A+ 100% student!
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Diet Is The Key

Diet is the key to losing or gaining body weight.

All of these adages are true...

1) You can't out train a bad diet.

2) The best exercise to losing weight is pushing back from the table.

3) Abs are made in the kitchen

Exercise For Burning Calories

Exercise alone is ineffective for losing weight.

Exercise combine with a calorie deficit is the most effective approach. Exercise preserves muscle mass and increases Insulin Sensitivity.

The 80/20 Rule

This applies to just about everything.

When it comes to weight loss or weight gain, research shows that...

“As a rule of thumb, weight loss is generally 75 percent diet and 25 percent exercise."
Shawn M. Talbott, PhD, nutritional biochemist and former director of the University of Utah Nutrition Clinic
www.huffpost.com

Is Exercise Or Diet More Important For Weight Loss? Here's The Truth

Is Exercise Or Diet More Important For Weight Loss? Here's The Truth
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com

Investment Example

Think of an investment in losing or gaining weight, like investing your money.

Which investment is better?

Putting your money into something that provide you with a 75% return or 25% return?

Kozushi said:
continuing to half starve myself, ... "To heck with it!"
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Starvation Dieting

1) This approach ensures failure.

It occurs from when well meaning individual decrease calorie intake too low. They feel like they are starving. However, they have thousand of calories stored as body fat; so, they are not starving or anywhere close to it

A well formulated weight loss diet will ensure weight loss is obtained without feeling like you are starving or are irritable. These two feeling for someone are neon signs their diet isn't well formulated.
 
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