Other/Mixed How many Reps

[Mikhail]

Recently I listened to Pavel Tsatsouline podcast with Tim Ferriss. Pavel introduced the concept of no more than 3 to 5 reps in 3 to 5 sets.
I was wondering if that rule is across the board, in bench, squat, kettlebell swings, pushups, pullups, lunges, abdominal excercises, etc.?

 

[guardian7]

Recently I listened to Pavel Tsatsouline podcast with Tim Ferriss. Pavel introduced the concept of no more than 3 to 5 reps in 3 to 5 sets.
I was wondering if that rule is across the board, in bench, squat, kettlebell swings, pushups, pullups, lunges, abdominal excercises, etc.?

If the focus is strength pretty much yes. For example, if your focus is strength rather than strength-endurance, then you would choose a more difficult pushup variation like feet elevated or explosive or diamond rather than a normal one for those sets, building up slowly to a one arm pushup. Nine one arm pushups in sets of three would be a legit workout.

Some programs for barbell like power to the people do 2*5 but 4-5 times a week.

It does not apply to power exercises like swings, however.

BUT the principle is the same behind it is to do repeat sets so that you are working at full power and strict form in short sets to keep up that level of quality longer.

For swings, you might do sets of 7-10 with a talk test between them see Simple and Sinister 2 and then keep going for as long as you can maintain quality, not till you are tired and sloppy in form. Then do more the next day because you are not burned out. The overall amount and quality over the week will be more than burning yourself out one day and then taking a couple days off.

The principle is to stay fresh, high quality, rest periods, frequent workouts, and quit before your form becomes sloppy. For heavy lifting this usually works out to 10-25 reps. If not, you are lifting too light. Having said that another principle is to wave your volume as well as weight but that is a whole other principle of Strongfirst.

 

[Anna C]

Generally speaking...

Compound strength, 3 to 5 reps in 3 to 5 sets. Squat, deadlift, bench, overhead press.

Power, 10 reps or so, 10 sets of so. Swings, cleans. snatches.

Accessory, 8-12 reps, 3 or so sets. Abdominal work, lunges, calf raises, shoulder work, etc.

Pull-ups and push-ups, all depends on how hard they are for you, and what your goals are.

 

[Hung]

Like Anna. Just want to mention that the number of reps for power is for kettlebell balistic. If you use barbell move, like heavy clean, snatch, high pull - the number is much lower, 1 - 3

 

[Antti]

I'll go a bit further than @q.Hung and say that if one wants to develop power specifically and optimally then ten reps or seven is far too much.

Take a look at athletics where the field depends on maximal power output. A man goes and throws a javelin once, chats for ten minutes, repeats it, keeps at it for an hour, has a great training session.

Still, in the weightroom it's a bit different, but the weightlifters use minimal reps.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with doing 10*10 sets of swings, they work great for multiple qualities, but I wouldn't say that it's the best way to develop power.

Personally, I think accessory exercises can also play with the 3-5 * 3-5 role. They can be periodized just the same as the main exercises of a program, and some very prominent strength athletes have done so with great success.

I can see merit for high reps if there are some muscle groups that are very much slow twitch dominant. I have been told that some abdominal muscles are such, for example, likely calves as well, etc, but I don't know enough about this field to make any assumptions.

 

[guardian7]

I'll go a bit further than @q.Hung and say that if one wants to develop power specifically and optimally then ten reps or seven is far too much.

Take a look at athletics where the field depends on maximal power output. A man goes and throws a javelin once, chats for ten minutes, repeats it, keeps at it for an hour, has a great training session.

Still, in the weightroom it's a bit different, but the weightlifters use minimal reps.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with doing 10*10 sets of swings, they work great for multiple qualities, but I wouldn't say that it's the best way to develop power.

Personally, I think accessory exercises can also play with the 3-5 * 3-5 role. They can be periodized just the same as the main exercises of a program, and some very prominent strength athletes have done so with great success.

I can see merit for high reps if there are some muscle groups that are very much slow twitch dominant. I have been told that some abdominal muscles are such, for example, likely calves as well, etc, but I don't know enough about this field to make any assumptions.

You make a good point that we might need words for maxpower vs power-endurance vs long slow distance, but if the weight is too heavy, you won't get the velocity to develop the power. You will get a fast grind I read in an article that 1/3 bodyweight is optimal for power training of swings. Many exercise scientists argue against using bands to train punches or weighted balls or bats in baseball for this reason. It messes up the skill development. The problem is probably in the language we use that is not precise enough.

 

[Anna C]

Like Anna. Just want to mention that the number of reps for power is for kettlebell balistic. If you use barbell move, like heavy clean, snatch, high pull - the number is much lower, 1 - 3

Yes, indeed. Totally agree, as that's what I'm doing mostly these days. 3 barbell cleans or snatches is plenty for a set!

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

no more than 3 to 5 reps in 3 to 5 sets.
I was wondering if that rule is across the board, in bench, squat, kettlebell swings, pushups, pullups, lunges, abdominal excercises, etc.?

1 - 5 Reps Per Set

Maximum Strength, Power and Speed Training Set need to be performed in this Repetition Range.

It does not apply to power exercises like swings, however.

Kettlebell Swing

Kettlebell Swings for Power use the same 1 - 5 Repetition per set. Since the swing employs a stretch reflex action, more than 1 Repetition is needed. Thus, around 3 - 5 Repetitions per Kettlebell Power Set are more effective.

Part of the issue is that a fairly a heavy Kettlebell is required to maximize Power in a Kettlebell Swing; between one-third to 100% of an individuals body weight.

As an example, a 180 lb individual need to perform to perform a Kettlebell Swing with a Kettlebell that is 60 lbs (one-third) to 180 lbs (100%).

The Kettlebell Load Percentage was addresses in this post: Kettlebells and wrestling sttength

As per Antti...

"...if one wants to develop power specifically and optimally then ten reps or seven is far too much."

"...there's nothing wrong with doing 10*10 sets of swings, they work great for multiple qualities, but I wouldn't say that it's the best way to develop power. "

Strength Training Percentages

The same Reps, Sets and Rest Periods are used for Maximum Strength Training, Power and Speed.

1) Maximum Strength

a) Reps: 1 - 5 Reps, around 1 - 2 Reps is optimal.

b) Load: 85% plus of 1 Repetition Max

c) Rest Periods: 3 minute and longer between Sets

2) Power Training

a) Reps: 1 - 5 Reps; around 1 - 2 Reps is optimal.

b) Load

Traditional Exercises (Squat, Bench, etc) 48 to 62% plus of 1 Repetition Max

Olympic Movements: 70 to 80% of 1 Repetition Max. Kettlebell Swings fall into this category.

c) Rest Periods: 3 minute and longer between Sets.

3) Speed Training

a) Reps: 1 - 5 Reps, around 1 - 2 Reps is optimal.

b) Load: 10 - 40% plus of 1 Repetition Max

c) Rest Periods: 3 minute and longer between Sets

4) Hypertrophy Training

a) Reps: 8 - 12 Reps or more.

b) Load: 60 - 80% plus of 1 Repetition Max

c) Rest Periods: Approximately 1 Minute between sets

5) Endurance Strength Training

a) Reps: 15 Reps or more.

b) Load: 40 - 60% plus of 1 Repetition Max

c) Rest Periods: Approximately 30 Seconds or less between sets

d) Endurance Training alone increased aerobic capacity at the expense of Speed, Power and Maximum Strength; all three drop like a rock during a Hypertrophy only phase.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

if the weight is too heavy, you won't get the velocity to develop the power. ...1/3 bodyweight is optimal for power training of swings.

Optimal Power

Power is optimally developed with a Kettlebell Swing load of between one-third to 100% of an individual's body weight.

At a body weight of 194 lbs, I have perform swing with 170 lbs.

Al Ciampa perform performed Kettlebell Swings with a 92kgs/202 lbs at a body weight of over 200 lbs. There was video of him posted on this site. However, the video is no longer available for some reason.

Dr Bret Contreras' Power Kettlebell Swing Research

Are Heavy Kettlebell Swings Better Than Deadlifts?

Heavy kettlebell swings could be the best damn posterior chain exercise you're not doing, possibly even better than deadlifts! Here's why.

www.t-nation.com

Style	Load (lbs)	Peak Vertical Force (N)	Peak Horizontal Force (N)
Squat Style	70	2,170-2,349	166-182
Squat Style	140	2,431-2,444	278-353
Hip Hinge Style	70	1,935-2,140	340-402
Hip Hinge Style	140	2,325-2,550	499-520

Many exercise scientists argue against using bands to train punches or weighted balls or bats in baseball for this reason. It messes up the skill development.

Technique Training And Development For Maxium Strength

This is best accomplished by performing single reps with load of 85% plus of a 1 Repetition Max in the traditional movements; Squats, Bench Press, etc.

Technique with 70 - 80% with an individual 1 Repetition Max works, as well. However, not the the same degree as the 85% plus training.

So, yes band do alter lifting technique to some degree.

Kettlebell Swing Load

One of the issue is that many individual aren't really using the right training load with Kettlebell Swings for maximum Power Training.

That because they...

1) Do not know what the right training percentage (load) is.

2) They don't have a Kettlebell that heavy.

Banded Kettlebell Swing


Dr Craig Marker's Banded Kettlebell Swing (video demonstration) shows you to how to increase the top end loading of the Kettlebell Swing with your current Kettlebells.

Banded Kettlebell Swing allow individuals performing light to moderate loaded Kettlebell Swing to maximize Power Output through a greater range of the movement.

 

[guardian7]

1 - 5 Reps Per Set

Maximum Strength, Power and Speed Training Set need to be performed in this Repetition Range.



Kettlebell Swing

Kettlebell Swings for Power use the same 1 - 5 Repetition per set. Since the swing employs a stretch reflex action, more than 1 Repetition is needed. Thus, around 3 - 5 Repetitions per Kettlebell Power Set are more effective.

Part of the issue is that a fairly a heavy Kettlebell is required to maximize Power in a Kettlebell Swing; between one-third to 100% of an individuals body weight.

As an example, a 180 lb individual need to perform to perform a Kettlebell Swing with a Kettlebell that is 60 lbs (one-third) to 180 lbs (100%).

The Kettlebell Load Percentage was addresses in this post: Kettlebells and wrestling sttength

As per Antti...

"...if one wants to develop power specifically and optimally then ten reps or seven is far too much."

"...there's nothing wrong with doing 10*10 sets of swings, they work great for multiple qualities, but I wouldn't say that it's the best way to develop power. "

Strength Training Percentages

The same Reps, Sets and Rest Periods are used for Maximum Strength Training, Power and Speed.

1) Maximum Strength

a) Reps: 1 - 5 Reps, around 1 - 2 Reps is optimal.

b) Load: 85% plus of 1 Repetition Max

c) Rest Periods: 3 minute and longer between Sets

2) Power Training

a) Reps: 1 - 5 Reps; around 1 - 2 Reps is optimal.

b) Load

Traditional Exercises (Squat, Bench, etc) 48 to 62% plus of 1 Repetition Max

Olympic Movements: 70 to 80% of 1 Repetition Max. Kettlebell Swings fall into this category.

c) Rest Periods: 3 minute and longer between Sets.

3) Speed Training

a) Reps: 1 - 5 Reps, around 1 - 2 Reps is optimal.

b) Load: 10 - 40% plus of 1 Repetition Max

c) Rest Periods: 3 minute and longer between Sets

4) Hypertrophy Training

a) Reps: 8 - 12 Reps or more.

b) Load: 60 - 80% plus of 1 Repetition Max

c) Rest Periods: Approximately 1 Minute between sets

5) Endurance Strength Training

a) Reps: 15 Reps or more.

b) Load: 40 - 60% plus of 1 Repetition Max

c) Rest Periods: Approximately 30 Seconds or less between sets

d) Endurance Training alone increased aerobic capacity at the expense of Speed, Power and Maximum Strength; all three drop like a rock during a Hypertrophy only phase.

Granted the OP just wants a simple answer to get started. I acknowledge that, so the general advice in the rep ranges we agree with although I think it takes some experience and a foundation to get the most out of 1-3 rep ranges compared to five reps.

So why do programs like RELOAD from SF have sets of five and relatively high volume? I was surprised at the volume when I read it.

It seems that higher volume and hypertrophy periods helps provide a foundation to go to higher levels of strength at lower rep ranges in more focused periods.

As Pavel has stated a couple of times, two week cycles seem to be optimal.
In other words, 1-3 reps are optimal for a given period but remaining heavy for too long will not outperform proper cycling I would think. PlanStrong mixes quite high volume at 70 to 80 on some days with very very low volume at 90+.

Programs like 5/3/1 seem to be a viable alternative. I followed it a while back and it worked well until later in the program I couldn't handle the pressing intensity probably due to poor form at the time. It was a while ago.

 

[Anna C]

why do programs like RELOAD from SF have sets of five and relatively high volume

Sets of 5 are about the best for general strength-building with compound movements. 1-3 reps are optimal for peaking maximal strength; i.e. the expression of a 1RM.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I think it takes some experience and a foundation to get the most out of 1-3 rep ranges compared to five reps.

Thinking

Thinking equated to guessing and speculation.

With that said, what has led you to this conclusion?

So why do programs like RELOAD from SF have sets of five and relatively high volume?

Sets of 5 Repetitions

This type of training is effective and been around for a while.

Some volume is necessary but to some degree is dependent on the individual.

It seems that higher volume and hypertrophy periods helps provide a foundation to go to higher levels of strength at lower rep ranges in more focused periods.

Volume Training

As the saying goes, "The poison is in the dose".

Some individual's respond well to Volume Training Tonnage, other do not.

Conjugate Training

Research shows the Conjugate Training (employing different type of Strength Training in same program) optimizes Maximum Strength. Thus, Maximum Strength, Power and Hypertrophy Training in the same program provides a synergistic effect; one enhance the other is a well written/performed program.

Chris Thibaudeau Neruo Training Type

Barbell - Chris Thibaudeau's Neuro Training Type

Chris Thibaudeau is one of the better Strength Coaches. Below is some information on training based on your Neuro Type and my Cliff Notes on each. Kenny Croxdale Introduction to Neurotyping - The Type 1A Profile 1) Intensity describes them. 2) They get more muscular by becoming stronger. 3)...

www.strongfirst.com

Chris Thibaudeau does a nice job of breaking down which category most individual fit into.

Thibaudeau's video presentation, as well as the Cliff Note are on the above listed site.

As Pavel has stated a couple of times, two week cycles seem to be optimal.

Two Week Cycles

I suspect this has been misinterpreted.

As Pavel basically stated in one article, approximately two weeks of hard training is the limit in a hard training program of let's say 4 weeks.

With program like the Westside Powerlifting Max Effort Method usually mean the after that one week, a new Periodization Training Cycle need to be implemented. That means dramatically decreasing the load in exercise or changing exercise, making them light an easy, then each week progressively increasing the load until you hit you max week. You then start a new training cycle.

Training Age

How long an individual has been training dictates the length of a Periodization Training Program.

Novice Lifter adapt slowly. They can perform the same program for a longer period of time.

Advanced Lifter adapt quickly. They need to change their program more often.

In other words, 1-3 reps are optimal for a given period but remaining heavy for too long will not outperform proper cycling I would think.

Overtraining

Training too heavy for too long lead to Overtraining.

The same applies when training too long with high volume.

Overtraining is often an issue with ambition individual who won't back off.

Overreaching

This precedes Overtraining. It occurs when you push the limit or close to it in the final week of a Peridozation Training Program.

Overreaching is an effective method of increasing strength and/or size.

It needs to be followed by a new Periodization Training Cycle; as noted above, dramatically decreasing the weigh in an exercise or changing exercises and starting over with something light and easy.

This method enhance recovery, "Active Recovery. Recovery is where strength is built.