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Nutrition How much protein is enough

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Gary W

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I used to be really into bodybuilding type workouts chugging protein shakes all day then developed an intolerance to lactose! Surprisingly!

The last few yrs my diet has slipped, i still eat healthy and within maintenance calories but my protein intake is nowhere near what it used to be.

Im about 180lb and eat around 120g protein a day.
I really find it hard to eat more, but do really need to?
i dont want to spend my life in the kitchen prepping meals etc
Would i benefit from upping it?

My diet mon to fri is pretty much the same, i eat in my van 90% of the time.

Breakfast
Oats with water and small dollop of strawberry jam

Snack
Lacto free cheese
Apple

Lunch
Chicken
Green peas olive oil and black pepper
85% dark chocolate

Snack
peanut butter with one slice of bread

Dinner
Normally some sort of meat and veg/salad jacket potato.

Totals are roughly 120p 200c 90f
 
I used to be really into bodybuilding type workouts chugging protein shakes all day then developed an intolerance to lactose! Surprisingly!

The last few yrs my diet has slipped, i still eat healthy and within maintenance calories but my protein intake is nowhere near what it used to be.

Im about 180lb and eat around 120g protein a day.
I really find it hard to eat more, but do really need to?
i dont want to spend my life in the kitchen prepping meals etc
Would i benefit from upping it?

My diet mon to fri is pretty much the same, i eat in my van 90% of the time.

Breakfast
Oats with water and small dollop of strawberry jam

Snack
Lacto free cheese
Apple

Lunch
Chicken
Green peas olive oil and black pepper
85% dark chocolate

Snack
peanut butter with one slice of bread

Dinner
Normally some sort of meat and veg/salad jacket potato.

Totals are roughly 120p 200c 90f
Depending on your goals fitness wise you might be good to go. If you are still making progress strength wise and you are good with it you can stay on track or bump it up just a bit. If you are looking for size gains you probably want another 50+ grams to help with that goal. I weigh 245 and take in around 160-180 grams and have been doing pretty well. Something simple like adding a quick shake with breakfast might be all you need.
 
Taken from Phil Maffetone's web site.
Protein recommendations from the International Society of Sports Nutrition.
1.4 to 2.0 grams/kg body weight/day
For those performing regular strength training sports 2.3-3.1 grams/kg body weight /day or more may be necessary.
Pretty good range here. Experiment and take notes.
 
Goals are just keeping fit but gaining strength not necessarily size would be nice, guessing im around 15% bf currently so fairly slim.

Im thinking of subbing the PB sandwich for tuna, that'll give me a extra 15g of protein every day taking it to about 135g
 
I used to be really into bodybuilding type workouts chugging protein shakes all day then developed an intolerance to lactose! Surprisingly!

The last few yrs my diet has slipped, i still eat healthy and within maintenance calories but my protein intake is nowhere near what it used to be.

Im about 180lb and eat around 120g protein a day.
I really find it hard to eat more, but do really need to?
i dont want to spend my life in the kitchen prepping meals etc
Would i benefit from upping it?

My diet mon to fri is pretty much the same, i eat in my van 90% of the time.

Breakfast
Oats with water and small dollop of strawberry jam

Snack
Lacto free cheese
Apple

Lunch
Chicken
Green peas olive oil and black pepper
85% dark chocolate

Snack
peanut butter with one slice of bread

Dinner
Normally some sort of meat and veg/salad jacket potato.

Totals are roughly 120p 200c 90f

Studies show that more than 1.6-1.8g/kg bodyweight yields no additional muscle building.

Protein-meta-analysis-1.6-1024x720.jpg


optimal-protein-intake.png



In your case, that's about 130g, barely above what you're at now.

And that's assuming fairly hard training.
 
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I used to be really into bodybuilding type workouts chugging protein shakes all day then developed an intolerance to lactose! Surprisingly!

The last few yrs my diet has slipped, i still eat healthy and within maintenance calories but my protein intake is nowhere near what it used to be.

Im about 180lb and eat around 120g protein a day.
I really find it hard to eat more, but do really need to?
i dont want to spend my life in the kitchen prepping meals etc
Would i benefit from upping it?

My diet mon to fri is pretty much the same, i eat in my van 90% of the time.

Breakfast
Oats with water and small dollop of strawberry jam

Snack
Lacto free cheese
Apple

Lunch
Chicken
Green peas olive oil and black pepper
85% dark chocolate

Snack
peanut butter with one slice of bread

Dinner
Normally some sort of meat and veg/salad jacket potato.

Totals are roughly 120p 200c 90f

Protein recommendations from the International Society of Sports Nutrition.
1.4 to 2.0 grams/kg body weight/day
For those performing regular strength training sports 2.3-3.1 grams/kg body weight /day or more may be necessary.


"International Society of Sports Nutrition. 1.4 to 2.0 grams/kg body weight/day."

This is a good recommendation for the majority of individual.

"For those performing regular strength training sports 2.3-3.1 grams/kg body weight /day or more may be necessary."

I question if this amount of protein is really necessary. It depends on multiple factors and is iffy.

Amount Of Protein Per Meal

This is one of the most important factors for maintaining and increasing muscle mass.

This based non research by Drs Donald Layman, Layne Norton, Gabe Wilson, etc.

1) Older Individual need to consume around 40 gram of quality protein per meal.

2) Younger individual need to consume about 30 gram of quality protein per meal.

Researchers Point to the Optimal Protein Dose, Timing & Distribution to Maximize Muscle

Cliff Notes Summary
  1. Muscle protein synthesis is an anabolic response that occurs in response to protein feeding and resistance training. On the protein front, it specifically relates to leucine intake. To maximize the MPS response, ~2.5g of leucine is required. This is known as the “leucine threshold”.
  2. To maximize the muscle protein synthesis response over the course of a day, it seems that 3–4 evenly spaced meals that surpass the leucine threshold is a prudent strategy.
  3. A meal containing 0.4 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight (g/kg BW) from a high-quality protein source will allow an individual to hit the leucine threshold. For most people this is somewhere between 20–40g.
  4. The best sources of protein for this purpose are animal proteins (particularly whey protein) due to their high branched-chain amino acid composition. Plant-based protein sources will mean a higher protein intake is needed to hit the required level of leucine.
  5. When MPS is “spiked” in response to a protein feeding, it will drop back to baseline within 2–3 hours. This drop will occur regardless of whether protein or amino acids continue to be fed and leucine remains high. This is potentially due to high demand of ATP required by cells for MPS (i.e. MPS is an energy-expensive process and the cell will stop MPS to conserve energy).
  6. MPS is only a proxy measure for muscle hypertrophy, not an exact correlate. Net muscle protein balance (MPS vs. muscle protein breakdown) matters more. And further, there are many other factors than influence actual hypertrophy outside of MPS and MPB.
  7. Of all the macro nutrients, it seems that timing and distribution (versus simply total daily intake) is most important when it comes to protein. However, there are pragmatic examples of scenarios where we may not theoretically maximize MPS, yet still preserve and/or build plenty of muscle mass. For example, daily intermittent fasting.
Your Diet

Based on your diet, it appears that the only meals you are most likely obtaining enough protein to trigger the anabolic process is lunch and dinner.

Snacks

Research in the International Society of Sport Nutrition by Dr John Berardi determined that smaller, multiple meals/snack do not increase your metabolism. The constant eating blocks body fat from being burned.

Another factor is...

Refractory Period

Drs Layne Norton and Gabe Wison determined that optimal Muscle Protein Synthesis (required for building muscle) is optimized when the right amount of protein (Leucine) is consumed every 4 - 6 hours rather that the dogma of eating protein every three hours.

The muscles are similar to a sponge. When the sponge is soaking wet, it is unable to absorb any more water.

When the sponge is dry, it soaks up a lot of water. Muscle respond in the same way.

Norton and Wilson's research found when the muscles were dry like a sponge after 4 - 6 hours of not consuming protein; optimal Muscle Protein occurred.

Eating protein every three hours amounted to a "Muscle Sponge" still being soaked and unable to absorb protein and optimally trigger Muscle Protein Synthesis.
 
"International Society of Sports Nutrition. 1.4 to 2.0 grams/kg body weight/day."

This is a good recommendation for the majority of individual.

"For those performing regular strength training sports 2.3-3.1 grams/kg body weight /day or more may be necessary."

I question if this amount of protein is really necessary. It depends on multiple factors and is iffy.

Amount Of Protein Per Meal

This is one of the most important factors for maintaining and increasing muscle mass.

This based non research by Drs Donald Layman, Layne Norton, Gabe Wilson, etc.

1) Older Individual need to consume around 40 gram of quality protein per meal.

2) Younger individual need to consume about 30 gram of quality protein per meal.

Researchers Point to the Optimal Protein Dose, Timing & Distribution to Maximize Muscle

Cliff Notes Summary
  1. Muscle protein synthesis is an anabolic response that occurs in response to protein feeding and resistance training. On the protein front, it specifically relates to leucine intake. To maximize the MPS response, ~2.5g of leucine is required. This is known as the “leucine threshold”.
  2. To maximize the muscle protein synthesis response over the course of a day, it seems that 3–4 evenly spaced meals that surpass the leucine threshold is a prudent strategy.
  3. A meal containing 0.4 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight (g/kg BW) from a high-quality protein source will allow an individual to hit the leucine threshold. For most people this is somewhere between 20–40g.
  4. The best sources of protein for this purpose are animal proteins (particularly whey protein) due to their high branched-chain amino acid composition. Plant-based protein sources will mean a higher protein intake is needed to hit the required level of leucine.
  5. When MPS is “spiked” in response to a protein feeding, it will drop back to baseline within 2–3 hours. This drop will occur regardless of whether protein or amino acids continue to be fed and leucine remains high. This is potentially due to high demand of ATP required by cells for MPS (i.e. MPS is an energy-expensive process and the cell will stop MPS to conserve energy).
  6. MPS is only a proxy measure for muscle hypertrophy, not an exact correlate. Net muscle protein balance (MPS vs. muscle protein breakdown) matters more. And further, there are many other factors than influence actual hypertrophy outside of MPS and MPB.
  7. Of all the macro nutrients, it seems that timing and distribution (versus simply total daily intake) is most important when it comes to protein. However, there are pragmatic examples of scenarios where we may not theoretically maximize MPS, yet still preserve and/or build plenty of muscle mass. For example, daily intermittent fasting.
Your Diet

Based on your diet, it appears that the only meals you are most likely obtaining enough protein to trigger the anabolic process is lunch and dinner.

Snacks

Research in the International Society of Sport Nutrition by Dr John Berardi determined that smaller, multiple meals/snack do not increase your metabolism. The constant eating blocks body fat from being burned.

Another factor is...

Refractory Period

Drs Layne Norton and Gabe Wison determined that optimal Muscle Protein Synthesis (required for building muscle) is optimized when the right amount of protein (Leucine) is consumed every 4 - 6 hours rather that the dogma of eating protein every three hours.

The muscles are similar to a sponge. When the sponge is soaking wet, it is unable to absorb any more water.

When the sponge is dry, it soaks up a lot of water. Muscle respond in the same way.

Norton and Wilson's research found when the muscles were dry like a sponge after 4 - 6 hours of not consuming protein; optimal Muscle Protein occurred.

Eating protein every three hours amounted to a "Muscle Sponge" still being soaked and unable to absorb protein and optimally trigger Muscle Protein Synthesis.
Yes, a lot of info on protein out there. Timing,types of protein, what it is eaten with, digestive strength,age,stress,intensity of training,etc. The Maffetone reference puts me btwn. 127 to 281 grams per day. I usually wave my intake in the range of 100-200 grams per day. One day a week I will consume little to no protein. My form of choice is grass fed beef and I will supplement with 4-5 grams of leucine most days.
As you end your posts with " I guarantee it will never work if you never try it." Trail and error, experiment.
 
Goals are just keeping fit but gaining strength not necessarily size would be nice, guessing im around 15% bf currently so fairly slim.

Im thinking of subbing the PB sandwich for tuna, that'll give me a extra 15g of protein every day taking it to about 135g
@Gary Wilson , sounds like a good idea to me. You could also add a quality whey powder to your oats in the am and cook an extra portion of meat with dinner to pack the next morning and add to your cheese and apple snack. Soft boiled eggs also make a good snack.These changes will not require much prep time and would be interesting to see if they are helpful.
 
@Gary Wilson , sounds like a good idea to me. You could also add a quality whey powder to your oats in the am and cook an extra portion of meat with dinner to pack the next morning and add to your cheese and apple snack. Soft boiled eggs also make a good snack.These changes will not require much prep time and would be interesting to see if they are helpful.

I vote for peanut butter + tuna sandwich!

Then again, my macros are 40% fat..... ;)

If you throw in a little Srirachi sauce, it becomes a little Southeast Asian.

I like it on a crusty french / sourdough similar to what they use in Vietnamese banh mi.

I also like it on German "fitness brot".
 
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I vote for peanut butter + tuna sandwich!

Then again, my macros are 40% fat..... ;)

If you throw in a little Srirachi sauce, it becomes a little Southeast Asian.

I like it on a crusty french / sourdough similar to what they use in Vietnamese banh mi.

I also like it on German "fitness brot".

Mine isnt far from 40% ive always preferred higher fat over higher carb
 
@Gary Wilson , sounds like a good idea to me. You could also add a quality whey powder to your oats in the am and cook an extra portion of meat with dinner to pack the next morning and add to your cheese and apple snack. Soft boiled eggs also make a good snack.These changes will not require much prep time and would be interesting to see if they are helpful.

I dont know if i can have whey powder without giving me the s#$ts now days!
The other ideas are a good shout cheers

I know pre packed isnt the best but thinking i might buy some cooked beef peices to have with my snack, half a pack has 30g protein ?

INGREDIENTS: Beef, Mineral Sea Salt, Stabiliser (Triphosphates), Salt.
 
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I just orderd some pea protein isolate 23g per serving so like suggested I'll probably have one of those in the morning with my porridge
 
I just orderd some pea protein isolate 23g per serving so like suggested I'll probably have one of those in the morning with my porridge
Nice. Egg protein powder can also work well for folks that have issues with whey . Have you ever tried a cold processed grass fed whey, plain, no flavoring, label reads whey protein concentrate and nothing else?
 
Nice. Egg protein powder can also work well for folks that have issues with whey . Have you ever tried a cold processed grass fed whey, plain, no flavoring, label reads whey protein concentrate and nothing else?
No i haven't, I'll look into it!

I cant really afford to be buying shakes but the one ive bought is 2.5kg for £25 and at one scoop a day will last nearly 3 months!
Its also unflavoured
 
I used to be really into bodybuilding type workouts chugging protein shakes all day then developed an intolerance to lactose! Surprisingly!

The last few yrs my diet has slipped, i still eat healthy and within maintenance calories but my protein intake is nowhere near what it used to be.

Im about 180lb and eat around 120g protein a day.
I really find it hard to eat more, but do really need to?
i dont want to spend my life in the kitchen prepping meals etc
Would i benefit from upping it?

My diet mon to fri is pretty much the same, i eat in my van 90% of the time.

Breakfast
Oats with water and small dollop of strawberry jam

Snack
Lacto free cheese
Apple

Lunch
Chicken
Green peas olive oil and black pepper
85% dark chocolate

Snack
peanut butter with one slice of bread

Dinner
Normally some sort of meat and veg/salad jacket potato.

Totals are roughly 120p 200c 90f
I’m doing a sort of self experiment. Doing S and S and basically just eating a 1lb ribeye a day. I think that’s like 110 grams of protein. I weigh 185 now. Curious to see if I’ll gain retain or lose muscle after a couple more months of this. I went from 215 to 185 in about a month or a little more with just doing the keto/intermittent fasting/s and s. But I definitely got stronger and have more muscle definition. I do lose sleep sometimes feeling like I dot. Get enough protein and/or don’t get to use it all cause of that whole 30g/sitting into (but I’ve read many things that kind of debunked the only absorbing 30g at a time Thing)
 
I'm somewhat lactose intolerant myself, but Whey Isolate has very little lactose. I mix it up with soy milk.

FWIW, my maintenance protein is about 120-130g at about 185-190 lbs. When bulking up I increased to 160g using the recommended 4x /day (spacing protein into spikes every 4 or so hours) and it worked very well for putting on lean mass. I'm also a bit older.
 
No i haven't, I'll look into it!

I cant really afford to be buying shakes but the one ive bought is 2.5kg for £25 and at one scoop a day will last nearly 3 months!
Its also unflavoured

Instead of whey, I've become partial to cricket powder.
 
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