Barbell How often to increase weight on Power to the People program?

[Mosca]

STATS:
MALE - 27 - 82KG - 23%BF - 170CM
Currently doing the 3-5 method, and have been sticking to one weight for a while (Been on current weights for 3 weeks)
Mondays:
Overhead Press 45kgs 5 sets of 3 reps
Deadlifts 95kgs 5 sets of 3 reps

Wednesdays

Squats 95kgs 5 sets of 3
Bench Press 5 sets of 3

Friday is the same as Monday. I alternate each workout accordingly.

I've also realised that for my height and weight, I'm really quite weak. I've done variations of strength programs over the years, 5x5, Jim Wendler's BBB, the Delorme Program. I want to get stronger, and would like to at least LOOK like I train, because at the moment, it doesn't even look like I train.

Anyway, I'm just here for some advice on a few things.
What weight should I start with? 95kg for 3 reps on the deadlifts feels pretty comfy. Should I just start with that weight as my 100% or 5RM for the deadlift AND THEN 85kg (90%) for the second set?

For the bench, 65kg for 3 reps is not quite as comfy as the deadlift, but I've never failed a rep, and ive been on 65kg for three weeks. Could 65 be okay for my work weight?

I'm also looking to add the bear to my workouts eventually.

Finally, once I get into my groove, how often should I increase the weight? As mentioned, I'm willing to be as patient as I need to be. I don't want to be stalled forever anymore.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

If you have the book, the main thing is the tension generation, moving slowly enough so you can keep the tension through the whole lift. To learn the technique. Once you've got that you can try to move a bit faster.

I'd read the program so that you keep one cycle going on from roughly 10-15 workouts or 3-4 weeks depending on training frequency. Start low enough, use wave cycle or even step cycle. My opinion is that linear cycle works with a bit bigger weights.

If your max5 is 95kg, start with 80% of that = 75kg. For second set calculate from the days weight, starting with 67,5kg.

Week 1 : 75, 77,5 80 82,5 85
Week 2: 87,5 90 92,5 (heavy) 82,5 85
Week 3: 87,5 90 92,5 95 97,5 (easy)
Week 4: 4x100 -> start again 77,5 80 82,5 87,5

I like the free wave, where you go with how you feel. For bench maybe step cycle. If we made a compromise that your max5 is 62,5 (I'd say 60) you'll start with 50kg.

Week 1: 50 50 52,5 ....
...
Week 3: 62,5 3x62,5 -> start again 50 50 52,5

You can start with the same weight because next time you should get higher. And these numbers are just an example, not a prediction.

A more theoretical approach, optimal training zone is usually 70-80% of 1RM or 75-85% depending on what you read. 5RM would be close to 85% and x0,8 = 68%. Doing only one set with one follower, will regulate training volume so you can train even 5 times a week.

Moving the bar slowly will take time though and is taxing. So the amount of sets you can do in a workout is limited. I'd try to train all big three, but don't quite know how. In these weights I'd also do one warm up set for bench and deadlift, maybe 2 sets for squat. When going the high end of a cycle I'd break the warm up reps into 3 and 2 reps. E.g. bench 5x35 -> 3x35, 2x50.

So it'd be in one workout SQ 4 sets, BP 3 sets, DL 3 sets. Maybe I'd start with that in this order (competition). If it feels easy after one cycle, I'd add one good special exercise for each day. If you want to do more specials you probably can't do 5x a week all three.

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

If you do 5x3 workouts effortless, then maybe it's too little weight. If you can't handle bigger weights, learn the tension and so on from the book. It's the best explanation that I have seen or heard.

 

[Toomuch4]

If you do 5x3 workouts effortless, then maybe it's too little weight. If you can't handle bigger weights, learn the tension and so on from the book. It's the best explanation that I have seen or heard.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the tension concepts in the book are slightly outdated. You want to stay tight through out the lift, but you don't necessarily need maximum tension during a sub maximal set where it's unnecessary.

 

[Mosca]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the tension concepts in the book are slightly outdated. You want to stay tight through out the lift, but you don't necessarily need maximum tension during a sub maximal set where it's unnecessary.

Thanks for the reply. If you have any advice, I'm doing Deadlifts and Bench Monday to Friday, 95 and 90kg for deads, 60 and 55kgs for bench, just using the standard rep scheme. Would it be okay to stick to this weight until it starts to feel a little too comfy?

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the tension concepts in the book are slightly outdated. You want to stay tight through out the lift, but you don't necessarily need maximum tension during a sub maximal set where it's unnecessary.

Basicly you are right. I've understood that it's written for beginners. However you can learn it only by doing it. The idea is that tension is so high that form shall never break. Kinda like not stay tight but STAY TIGHT.

Now I have to check my own doings..

 

[Starlord]

With step loading you use the same weight until you are dominating the weight. Then you increase the weight on the bar.

So for example for your 95kg 3×5 you said it feels light. Then up it to 100kg and start all over again. Until that feels light.

Step loading is great as it allows you to work on numerous athletic qualities at the same time. This is due to the progression being less aggressive so it doesn't consume too much of your recovery capacity.

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

With step loading you use the same weight until you are dominating the weight. Then you increase the weight on the bar.

So for example for your 95kg 3×5 you said it feels light. Then up it to 100kg and start all over again. Until that feels light.

Step loading is great as it allows you to work on numerous athletic qualities at the same time. This is due to the progression being less aggressive so it doesn't consume too much of your recovery capacity.

OP was about PTTP, which is about tension, technique. Programming of PTTP is about controlling volume, increasing intensity, and when it becomes too much, you go back down. Increasing max capability. Variety for intensity, should be better than constant. Volume is controlled by doing only ten reps. In PTTP step load is used to prolong one cycle.

 

[Steve Freides]

If you have the book, the main thing is the tension generation, moving slowly enough so you can keep the tension through the whole lift. To learn the technique. Once you've got that you can try to move a bit faster.

I don't believe it says to lift slowly. It does say not to try to lift quickly, which might be taken to be an instruction to lift slowly, but that would be a misinterpretation.

Moving the bar slowly will take time though and is taxing. So the amount of sets you can do in a workout is limited.

See above - it's not about moving slowly, and the Bear protocol in PTTP features a _lot_ of volume. The amount of sets is not "limited." The plan calls for daily lifting, and that means staying fresh so that you can do it every day or almost every day. That's really the only limitation. The Bear allows for one to push the volume up higher, potentially much higher.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the tension concepts in the book are slightly outdated. You want to stay tight through out the lift, but you don't necessarily need maximum tension during a sub maximal set where it's unnecessary.

You do want to learn how to work your personal "volume control" but there is nothing wrong, especially at the beginning, with applying as much tension as you can to even a light lift. Experienced lifters can and do differentiate, but that doesn't change the fact that "treat your light weights as if they were heavy so that your heavy weights will feel light" is appropriate to many kinds of lifters, not just beginners. I don't think advice in the book is at all outdated - perhaps it's more accurate to say that it focuses on teaching the principles of strength and that, over time, more experienced lifters will learn certain subtleties in the application of those principle. Many people on PTTP will have no idea what their actual maximum capability even is, and will therefore also not be good at dialing the volume control to the proper number.

Thanks for the reply. If you have any advice, I'm doing Deadlifts and Bench Monday to Friday, 95 and 90kg for deads, 60 and 55kgs for bench, just using the standard rep scheme. Would it be okay to stick to this weight until it starts to feel a little too comfy?

PTTP gives instructions for several kinds of lifting cycles - pick one and follow it.

I've also realised that for my height and weight, I'm really quite weak.

That fact and 25 cents will get you a ride on the subway. If you want to become stronger, make sure you read and reread the book and don't just treat it as a source of programming - the principles are the important thing, and if you follow them, you'll become stronger.

I want to get stronger

Welcome aboard! Me, too.

and would like to at least LOOK like I train, because at the moment, it doesn't even look like I train.

Form will follow function. When you are deadlifting twice what you weigh, you will likely look a little different, but it's important to remember that strength is a skill, and PTTP's purpose is to teach you that skill. If you wish to change your appearance, the Bear program in PTTP and other programs - there are many discussed on our forum - may be good things for you to look into in the future But first, get stronger, and only then see about what might come next for you.

@Mosca, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

-S-

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

@Steve Freides from p. 68

"Apart from safety, there are many reasons to lift and lower your weights slowly: 3-5 sec on the way up and 3-5 sec on the way down is the PTTP rule."

The same speed as your max effort could be. That is slow to me. Which is why I have said that a five feels like a ten, at least. For DL you don't have to lower slowly. Also misleading on p. 73 "PTTP lifts are slow....."

About the bear on p. 43

"Because of the work load you may have to reduce your training frequency somewhat, but restrain yourself from cutting back too much."

Also with the bear breaks are shorter once you have done 100% and 90%, and start doing 80%.

About limiting sets to two or reps to 10 per workout so you can train 5 times a week is said plenty of times.

Somewhere, not necessarily in the book, it's said that if you can't train 4 times a week you have to increase the amount of sets.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Steve Freides from p. 68

"Apart from safety, there are many reasons to lift and lower your weights slowly: 3-5 sec on the way up and 3-5 sec on the way down is the PTTP rule."

Alright, then I sit corrected.

-S-

 

[Anna C]

"Apart from safety, there are many reasons to lift and lower your weights slowly: 3-5 sec on the way up and 3-5 sec on the way down is the PTTP rule."

Later in the deadlift section, Pavel says "For most exercises the rule of thumb is to lower the weight with control. The deadlift is an exception. An attempt to slowly lower the bar tens to throw the weight forward and overstress your back. ... The proper way to get the bar home is to quickly push your glutes back - sitting in a chair, remember? -- and let the bar nearly fall to the floor."

We discussed that once before in this old thread.

 

[Steve Freides]

Later in the deadlift section, Pavel says "For most exercises the rule of thumb is to lower the weight with control. The deadlift is an exception. An attempt to slowly lower the bar tens to throw the weight forward and overstress your back. ... The proper way to get the bar home is to quickly push your glutes back - sitting in a chair, remember? -- and let the bar nearly fall to the floor."

And now I sit, my correction corrected.

-S-

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

The deadlift is an exception.

Like I wrote

For DL you don't have to lower slowly.

 

[Antti]

But, with correct technique, does it make sense to miss on the eccentric?

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

But, with correct technique, does it make sense to miss on the eccentric?

The eccentric phase of any heavily-loaded movement is typically associated with greater amounts of muscular soreness and microtrauma and, as such, can be beneficial if the goal is hypertrophy.

With PTTP being geared towrds the pursuit of strength without necessarily building size (The Bear program notwithstanding) with a high training frequency, 'skipping' the eccentric in the deadlift makes a lot of sense.

If you perform heavy deadlifts with slow eccentrics, it is unlikely you would be able to train with the recommended volume.

 

[Masangkay]

Addressing the "looking like you lift" angle of the original post, do make sure of a few points: 1) to look like you lift, you gotta eat like you lift, 2) slow easy cardio is the lowest risk to reward form of cardio for fat loss, 3) sleep is your friend!

To sum up:
1) 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight, pad the rest with healthy carbs and fats, adjusting based on weight gain or weight loss goal

2) Take walks most days of the week for about an hour each

3) Get the amount of sleep that works for you, minimum of 7 hrs

 

[marcelotine]

ive been on 65kg for three weeks

I am simply amazed that no one commented on this!

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

If you have the book, the main thing is the tension generation, moving slowly enough so you can keep the tension through the whole lift. To learn the technique. Once you've got that you can try to move a bit faster.

I'd read the program so that you keep one cycle going on from roughly 10-15 workouts or 3-4 weeks depending on training frequency. Start low enough, use wave cycle or even step cycle. My opinion is that linear cycle works with a bit bigger weights.

If your max5 is 95kg, start with 80% of that = 75kg. For second set calculate from the days weight, starting with 67,5kg.

Week 1 : 75, 77,5 80 82,5 85
Week 2: 87,5 90 92,5 (heavy) 82,5 85
Week 3: 87,5 90 92,5 95 97,5 (easy)
Week 4: 4x100 -> start again 77,5 80 82,5 87,5

I like the free wave, where you go with how you feel. For bench maybe step cycle. If we made a compromise that your max5 is 62,5 (I'd say 60) you'll start with 50kg.

Week 1: 50 50 52,5 ....
...
Week 3: 62,5 3x62,5 -> start again 50 50 52,5

You can start with the same weight because next time you should get higher. And these numbers are just an example, not a prediction.

A more theoretical approach, optimal training zone is usually 70-80% of 1RM or 75-85% depending on what you read. 5RM would be close to 85% and x0,8 = 68%. Doing only one set with one follower, will regulate training volume so you can train even 5 times a week.

Moving the bar slowly will take time though and is taxing. So the amount of sets you can do in a workout is limited. I'd try to train all big three, but don't quite know how. In these weights I'd also do one warm up set for bench and deadlift, maybe 2 sets for squat. When going the high end of a cycle I'd break the warm up reps into 3 and 2 reps. E.g. bench 5x35 -> 3x35, 2x50.

So it'd be in one workout SQ 4 sets, BP 3 sets, DL 3 sets. Maybe I'd start with that in this order (competition). If it feels easy after one cycle, I'd add one good special exercise for each day. If you want to do more specials you probably can't do 5x a week all three.

@marcelotine is this message of mine not visible?

 

[Hung]

Personally I would use rack pull or block pull for back-up set in The Bear. With many sets and reps form breaks down. Rack/block pull are safer option.