Old Forum How to avoid tendonitis from pull ups?

[Tim Kugel]

Hey guys,

I was hoping to get some advice on avoiding tendonitis in my elbows while working pull ups. I seem to have this problem about everytime I work pull ups consistantly. I get stronger, but then have to stop training for a while. Some details on what I've been doing recently:

I read Aleks Salkin's article on using a version of Dan John's 40 Day Easy Strength program to work his OAOLPU and liked the template a lot. So, I modified it to just work towards OA pull up, OA push up and the pistol. I had a baseline strength of about 10 RM on the pull ups. I used a supinated grip as much as possible to try to mitigate elbow issues. My progression of pulling exercises were chin ups from a bar moving towards archer pull ups. Pull ups would be followed by push up variations and then squats.

I was only able to make it about two and half weeks before needing to take off days due to elbow pain. About two weeks in, I switched to pulling from straps so that my arms could rotate. It definitely helped, but was too little too late. I was really hoping that the lower volume and higher frequency training of the 40 Day Easy Strength would enable me to get stronger without injury. Am I still working it too hard?

Anyone with tendonitis experience out there have programming suggestions? I believe that I should be able to do pull ups every day, but I have got to get my elbows stronger.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Joel the Savage]

My elbows are a bit jacked up from grappling.
It actually felt like new ones (i think this is what elboes are supposed to feel like?) after a few sessions of Farmers Walk. (2x40kg, 2x44kg and 2x48kgs different distance and weight every time)

 

[AleksSalkin]

Tim,

First of all, I'm glad you liked my article!

Second, I have to say in all honesty that I'm just not sure how good the 40 Day Program would be for working up toward one-arm chins.  There are certain movements that - at least in their infancy of your work to develop them - just don't work well for 5 days-a-week practice.  One-arm stuff on a bar can wreak havoc on your elbows.  When I do one-arm lockoffs, I can always tell if I've held them for too long as my elbows feel like they've taken a beating.  I've never had elbow problems, but that's probably because I'm pretty conservative.

If your current 10 RM is with your bodyweight only, you should work on building up to a stronger weighted pullup before working on any one-arm chinning progressions.  Doing your pulls on rings will probably be just what the doctor ordered for elbow health, but in the meantime, let them rest.  Tendonitis takes a long time to heal, and now might be a good time to train something else before revisiting your pullup practice later.

Side note: Do you ever train your forearm extensors?  I've known a number of people with forearm and elbow pain who got there largely due to ignoring their forearm extensors.  Just some food for thought.

 

[rhgo5]

If they hurt,stop till the elbows  heal-- it can take several weeks so dont rush back.Try bodyweight weight rows,etc. to work around them.

Try doing them without a straight bar which puts the elbows in a fixed position.Use ropes/towels for vertical pulls and suspension type apparatus where the handles move taking pressure off the elbow.

Warm up well--do supination/pronation  pre-routines with a light weight one end dumbell shaft.Stretch well--use rubber bands to work the finger extensors.

 

You dont need to perform pull-ups everyday.Focus more on quality and getting strong than on absolute numbers.

 

Hope this helps.

 

[Tim Kugel]

Thanks for getting back to me!

This leaves me with two(ish) questions, then:

1. What would be a useful intermediate goal to work towards? 20 RM pull ups? 5 RM + 1/2 BW?

2. What is a good program or programming guidelines to follow? 2x, 3x per week? sets/reps?

I really appreciate the input.

 

[Tim Kugel]

Oh, and for the forearm extensor training, I don't actively do anything at the moment. Seeing as several of you have recommended it, I'll start including it. I'll probably use the CC2 fingertip pushup progressions to do that.

Thanks!

 

[revjon]

A terrific Dan John tip is to mix in the evil wheel movement.  He so far as to suggest 5 wheels for each pull-up.  Is working wonders for me!  Just something else to consider.

 

[CJBNomad8654]

If you try to up your reps too soon on pull-ups you will have these kinds of problems, especially if you force extra reps from jumping and kipping then allowing your body to fall rather using a controlled decent.

My recommendation (coming from a man who does 78 straight dead hangs, and whom I personally watched do twenty pull-ups then go right into a one arm pull-up) is that you start with easy pyramids to five. Do push and pull. 1 pull-up, 1 push-up, 2 pull-ups, 2 push-ups, 3 pull-ups, 3 push-ups, 4 pull-ups, 4 push-ups, 5 pull-ups, 5 push-ups, again 5 pull-ups, 5-pushups, 4, 3, 2, and then 1. With each progression change your grip so that you are working different parts of each muscle. Close grip palms in, normal grip palms in, normal grip palms out, wide grip palms out, grip facing the length of the bar left hand in front, then right hand in front. With the push-ups change from diamonds to normal width, to wide, and back. Keep transitioning with each set. STRETCH between each set by grabbing the bar with one hand and turning away from it to open the chest and stretch the bicep. I also do the relax into stretch back stretch holding the bar with both hands and keeping your feet close to the bar then pushing your butt out stretching your back. Once you have a pyramid of 5 easy, then move to a pyramid of seven. Once you nail that then do a pyramid of 10. After ten then begin doing sets of  10 with alternating grips. You don't have to do pushups, you can also do dips, or some other pressing exercise, but if your at a bar you either have the ground or sometimes a dip bar. When you can do 10 sets of 10 easy enough then you can start doing days of max reps, or do wave loading: Hang a weight you can do for 5 reps between your legs and do them, the hang a heavier weight you can only do 1-2 times and do it. Weight 3-5 minutes then strap the lower weight back on and go ahead and do more than your original five. You are tricking the nervous system into giving you more as it assumes it is going to pull the heavier weight again. You will be tired after this workout. Any ways, you should be able to work up to 30-50 pull-ups in a few months. Forget kipping, I think Pavel gives great guidance on proper technique. Make sure your keeps your shoulders pulled in and that each rep is controlled on the way up and on the way down. Also, know that if you try to jump right into power moves like pulling and clapping or changing grip that you are going to feel it in your tendons. You can do them, but ensure you have the needed STRENGTH to do them in a controlled manner, and get a good warmup first.

 

[kris]

Timothy, could be good to check your technique. Are you using your lats instead of your arms ? Are your shoulders joints in your sockets ? Abs tights ? Pulling straight close to the bar ? Did you have a previous injury ? Using the good techniques for all reps you shouldn't have a tendinosis if no previous injury. Technique come first, volume only if technique is perfect.

 

[Journeyman]

Tim, definitely shoot for at least 20 strict pullups. +2/3 bwt. for at least one and +1/2 bwt. for 5 are good goals too. I have an OAC tutorial on my blog here: http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-first-one-arm-chin.html

Definitely don't do OAC work every day. 2-3 times a week, tops, is good. The torque on your elbow is much greater than on, say, a one arm pushup.

High repetition work for weak points is a good idea. Rotator cuff exercises, rear delts, forearm extensor work, reverse curls or light hammer curls (especially with bands) are all great for overall health and injury prevention when doing a lot of heavy pullups. I can't recall if I mentioned it in the article above or not, but after my OAC work I think I usually did a few sets of very strict pinwheel curls with a pair of 20# dbs, 50 reps of rear delt pulls with a band ('front chest pulls', for you strandpulling experts), rotator cuff exercises, and some finger extensor training with rubber bands. Never had any issues with tendonitis or even pain/soreness as long as I kept that little routine up after the heavy stuff.